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Watcher Character/Scene - WIP

ZBrush Artworks
#1

Hello ZBrushers! I thought I’d post my first attempt at creating a 3D scene for any suggestions, observations and criticisms you may have.

 My art background is primarily in traditional media (acrylics, inks, paper, canvas, etc) with some experience in 2D computer graphics. I'm relatively new to 3D and I've been working hard to learn from the many fantastic artists here on ZBC over the last year. This is the first sci-fi/fantasy piece I've ever done. It's been a good, challenging learning project thus far, and I'd love to hear more about what [i]works[/i] and what [i]doesn't work[/i] so that I can refine and improve it further.
 
 Thanks!
 
 ![tueller_watcher_render_01.jpg|675x900](upload://6z5ZBYSSaa7og6H4q1CVaLIxEgs.jpeg)
Wireframe


 
 Software Used:
  :small_orange_diamond:  ZBrush 2.0
  :small_orange_diamond:  3ds Max 8.0 SP2
  :small_orange_diamond:  VRay 1.47.03
  :small_orange_diamond:  Photoshop CS2

Attachments

tueller_watcher_wires_01.jpg

#2

Hey Djembe.
Man I love the face of your character.
For a first go, this is stellar. :smiley:
The things that I see could use some more work are the shoulder, wrists and ankles.
The ankles seem to lack the necessary structure to hold him up.

The shoulder or I should say the back of the deltoid.

Now I’m assuming this is a humanoid, since it has two arms, 2 legs etc…

Then the scapula or better the rear deltoid moving back towards the scapula, primarily the attachment to the spine of the scapula, needs to be resolved.

This is no easy task even for the seasoned pro.
Most of the people I know will cheat this and get the character into the pose
and re sculpt it there. :wink:

The wrist again, just some sort of structure to the wrists, especially the far wrist is bent awkwardly.

I guess at the end of the day most of what I’m seeing is the lack of bone
structure to support the awesome composition.

But like I said, for a first go… this is amazing. I truly enjoyed the design.
Kind of reminds me of something Barlowe would have created.

Once again I really love the face. I’m a huge fan of simple forms.:+1:

It’s much harder to create things that read well when they are simple.
I think you’ve done a fine job of that and captured a great feeling too.
I look forward to your next one.
Best of luck.
Cheers
Cesar Dacol Jr.
Aka, The Voodoo Monkey

#3

voodoomonkey, thanks for your great, detailed suggestions. I’ve been looking at this so long that I looked right past some of those issues. This is exactly the kind of suggestions I wanted to get. Thanks!

Here's my current To Do list: - Adjust the wrists and position of the upper hand to be more natural. - Strengthen the ankles to better illustrate the bone structure. - Sculpt the loin cloth further. More wrinkles and gravity. - Study my anatomy references to learn what voodoomoney is seeing that I'm not regarding the shoulder/back. - Add more atmospheric haze and perhaps more DOF. I'm going to work on it further and see if I can improve those areas now. Cheers!
#4

Very interesting piece. A wonderful start. Hard to believe it’s your first.

Keep posting, I will be interested to see your outcome.

Word.

#5

A very good piece , it just has a “studio” feel to it. If more depth could be
introduced into the scene and the little changes that were suggested
before it would be magic!

David

#6

I’m still plugging along, trying to improve the sculpting to some of the suggestions I’ve received here and elsewhere.

      At this stage, I still haven't addressed the most common rendering and environment critiques, but instead have focused primarily on trying to correct some of the anatomy problems that voodoomonkey and others have so kindly pointed out. I'm concerned that I'm still not getting the shoulder quite right, but I can't put my finger on what's not right about it.
      
      For this intermediate render, I've turned off some of the atmospheric effects I had on the previous render to more clearly focus on the changes to the character and keep the rendering times from getting out of hand.
      
      I've gotten critiques saying I need more DOF and others saying I need less, so I'll have to figure that out as I come to it. Hopefully the atmospheric effects I'll be adding will help separate the character from the background better.
      
    Again, any critiques or observations will be greatly appreciated. I'll keep on this learning project, until it's not half bad.   Much work to do...;)
      
      [![tueller_watcher_render_02.jpg|675x900](upload://jcQdZrz76DB1d5IWtImZh7eMF0c.jpeg)]
  
   <b>  Updated:</b> Wrists, Upper Hand, Ankles, Shoulder, End of Tail and Loin Cloth.

Still To Do: Better Specularity, Better DOF, Fog, Steam Plumes, etc.
[color=Navy]
Edit: Here’s a link to compare the changes from the previous render to the current one.[color=Navy]

  </span>
#7

looking better, yep the steam from taht things in the far back will be cool :smiley:

#8

The changes made a difference. Looking good now.

#9

wow that’s nice d. good updates on the second render. one thing that might be confusing you about the shoulder is that it’s not putting weight on that hand - it’s reaching towards the ground and barely touching it. like it’s feeling for some vibe left from a previous passerby that it’s tracking. i think you captured that well. maybe if there was some visual clue on the ground? there’s one little “bump” around where i guess the lats meet the deltoid that might not be as pronounced on a human (or maybe it’s too high up for a human) but well, this isn’t a human! so take that with a grain of salt.

game developer magazine runs a series on anatomy for animators. one went pretty in depth on the shoulder if you’re interested in looking further. i want to say 3 issues ago? don’t know if they have it online and you’ll have to google for their site. sorry can’t be much more help. but whatever! really nice job and great attention to details as is! look forward to where you take it and your works to come…

#10

Hey Djembe.
I thought I would do a quick photoshop job on the image.
I hope you don’t mind.:+1:

tueller_watcher_render_03.jpg

On to what I see.
I still think the far hand needs to be adjusted more.
I did a perspective cheat on it in the picture, rotating away in frame.
I’ve bulged some of the muscles in the legs to give a sense of squash.
Also defined the bones in the joints to once again hopefully give the sense
of a skeleton underneath the surface.
You really want that subcutaneous feeling.
The shoulder, I think it’s partially the clavicle that needs to rotate down and forward and the scapula on the back to match the rotation or be it slightly up and out.
Let me know if this is still confusing you and I’ll see what I can do to help you.

To anyone starting out. :warning:
The best anatomy reference and teachers by far, bar none… are Robert Beverly Hale and George Bridgeman I’d recommend them to anyone.
Please stay away from Burne Hogarth.
You will fall into the trap of creating Ken and Barbie dolls. Stay away!

Please be kind to yourself and study the anatomical structure of skeletons FIRST.:smiley:

You will only cause yourself years of grief if you begin with muscles.
Just like a house is built by constructing the foundation first… so is anatomy.
Flesh without bones is a huge pile of disgusting goo.
Think about it…:wink:
Time to go to bed…ZZZZzzzzzzz
Cheers
Cesar Dacol Jr.
Aka, The Voodoo Monkey

#11

Thanks to everyone who’s commented. And many, many thanks to voodoomonkey! I don’t mind that you’ve painted on top of my render in the least, especially as you’ve so clearly indicated your alterations. You’ve really put some time and thought into helping me out with this and it does me well.

Part of the problem I've faced is that this has been my first attempt at modeling, rigging and posing a figure. It's turned out to be nearly more than I can chew. As I got more frustrated with the difficulties of rigging/posing, I got increasingly sloppy with the anatomy just to "force" him into the pose I wanted. Lesson learned. :o What I've decided to do, is forgo the pose-ability altogether for now and focus on sculpting the posed mesh directly, rather than fussing with the rig. I'll tackle that aspect with a later project or once ZBrush 2.5 is released. Also, I appreciate what pete330 said about, "like it's feeling for some vibe left from a previous passerby that it's tracking". That's very much along the lines of what I was hoping to achieve. I'll definately give some more thought towards enhancing that idea. Whew! I've got my work cut out for me. I hope to post another, improved render soon. Thanks again!

Edit: Here’s a link to view overlays comparing the iterations (including voodoomonkey’s suggestions)

#12

Hey Djembe.
Don’t fret, I still think this is an amazing job for your first time out!:smiley:
Like I said most people I know don’t spend a whole lot of time on the rig
for just a picture.
If you’re planning on animating or giving it to animators, then that’s a different story.
To me, you’re on the right track. You’re solution to sculpt it is the best way to handle the deformation issues.
Besides now you’re going to have allot of fun Sculpting!:wink:
Another thing is don’t think that you need to do everything in the render.
Use photoshop to help you with your DOF etc… render off a Z depth pass.
Always render things in passes, if you can.
You’ll have way more control in comp.:smiley:
Once again this is an incredible piece and look forward to seeing where you take him.
Cheers
Cesar Dacol Jr.
Aka, The Voodoo Monkey

#13

Excellent piece.
As for there being anatomical problems…blah. It’s an alien being. Joints could be smaller because the beings bone density is high. Look at the extremely delicate bone structure of a 300 lbs deer and tell me it should not being able to stand.
The outstanding quality of most of the best artwork on this site is because they are not the “norm” or text book anatomical studies.
Sorry for going off but your work/vision is just that…your work.
Thank you for showing us your brilliant beginning!