ZBrushCentral

Understanding how to build an Avatar, Second Life?

Hi I’m new to zbrush but I been spending lots of time trying to figure out the process of how you go from a high poly count model, that is I guess textured with polypaint but working also alongside photoshop with Goz. What I am trying to get at is let’s say I have a model that is 3 million polys, then I polypaint it and also use photoshop. After that what would be the process of starting to get it in Second Life? I know I need to either do retopology with zbrush, or use the decimation z plugin. Or also I have 3D coat could use that to. But I’m kinda lost is polypainting, is that like ptex from mudbox? Where some how you can save out a file and use that file to bake in textures ontop of a low poly count model? An you have to have a UV map already built I’d assume for the low poly count model. I was thinking I could use something like unfold 3d to do that. But also what confuses me is this normal map. Is that needed? Because I read it’s just about adding more details to your model using fake lighting, such as bumps an dents. Reason I ask is I’m trying to simplify the process first before I go into doing rigging, animations. So if anyone can just tell me the process of going from mesh to fully modeled and textured avatar. Then I can worry about doing animations and rigging later. I know there is lots of ways this can be done but just a clear method as what’s required no matter what programs you use.

Example :

  1. Build a mesh in Maya or Zbrush
    2 retopologize it or decimate in zbrush or 3Dcoat
  2. build a UV map with unfold3d or zbrush uv master plugin.
  3. then polypaint in zbrush/photoshop or use ptex with mudbox.
  4. then save out some how a ptex file or not sure how with zbrush save out a polypaint file.
  5. Use maya to bake in those textures onto the low poly count model with a uv map ready.
  6. The result would be something close to the high end polygon model you started out with in zbrush.

Then etc etc lol. Sorry if this is annoying but I’m really trying to get an understand over all this like overwhelming information and the vast amount of programs that add to the confusion along with trying to be creative and build my first mesh. I have a gorilla head started so far in Maya but nothing finished. Also trying out zbrush thinking I’ll just try one of the models in there first and modify it to my liking just so I can get a grip on how it’s all done first. Plus with zbrush it’s as close to drawing in 2D I have found. Makes it easier.

I’d like to know this too.

If anyone can post up on this, it would really make people happy. I want to learn how to change the actual avatar shape, and textures, and port them back to sl, since mesh has now hit the grid.

I’m not sure on the OP, but i am brand new to zbrush and really love what i see. Photoshop is my right hand and this will fit nice along side of what i know with 2d. I’m really looking forward to this and i hope later i can add more sculpting into my list of things i love to do.

thanks!

:+1:

Yes more experience is needed, so others please add to the topic.
I dont use Second Life, though I’m my app explorations I note that Hexagon 2.5 (beta is free) seems to have special tab to direct link or export to SL. I use Topogun to retopo, found it easier than 3dc but it still was a nightmare getting something useful out of my nurbs based meshes. Beware retopo is very challenging on overlapping or intersecting mesh groups. Blacksmith too combines paint and retopo however its weird mesh grouping is severely limited and its 3d texture painting wont work without it. I’m hoping ZBrush satisfies my texture painting requirements.

Yea so far guys, I am learning that there is a test grid you can use called OSgrid. It’s basically SL but doesn’t require you to spend any money as you learn to build and want to upload a mesh or a sculpt I think they call it. Basically just a object in world that is textured but inanimate. From my understand anyway so far lol. The point of OSgrid for SL is a testing ground. So as you learn you can upload meshes or try to work on an avatar, scripting it an animating it as well. The world will react just as SL would if you uploaded there. So it’s a sure bet that if you get something right in OSgrid it will work in SL and won’t cost you lots of lindens to keep re-uploading if you’re trying to fix something.

Also other things I have learned so far. Found out you will need I think 3-4 meshes for SL. A low poly, mid poly and high poly mesh. The low poly mesh I think is what will mostly be used in SL. You’ll bake your polypaint or ptex file onto one of the meshes I think the low one not sure though still trying to find out.

If you you’re wondering what baking is what I have learned it basically burning in all your high end details you do in zbrush when you polypaint or use mudbox ptex files. Allowing you to give off the illusion you have a 3 million polygon model in a world that can really only have a max I think of 64k polys. Most are 15-25k and are considered a quality avatar. I think this is because it’s so taxing I even feel it inside of zbrush as I try to go to 8 million polys which seems to be my limit for what my computer can handle. I build my own comps so it’s pretty decent system and I’d say it’s about mid to low high end.

So these are also somethings to keep in mind. I just want to narrow down the process also so I don’t have to start over if I do something wrong lol.

Other things I been watching are exporting into say max, maya or unfold 3D to do UV mapping. Some of the things you need to look into as I am trying to see how to do it myself just using the meshes in Zbrush. Are taking your model and exporting it to build these UV maps that you will have to bake your polypaint onto. Under polypaint, click colorize. Make sure on the top toolbar in zbrush where you see edit, draw etc to the middle area that RGB is highlighted orange by clicking it. Turn off Mrgb, M, Zadd, Zsub and Zcut. Now scroll down on right toolbar to UVmap click GUVTiles, I’m not exactly sure what they are but they remind me of a uvmap of some sort that is storing your texture information. Pretend you painted up your model already and are trying to export out it’s texture. This is what I am explaining so it’s more clear. Next thing you’d do is scroll down to Texture Map, then click new from polypaint. Make sure Texture On is clicked. IT should create you an ugly map of your model in the preview box. After that hit clone txtr. This will clone it to the textures area on your left toolbar. Should be above your materials like skinsahde4 on left side. Click the cloned texture it made then look down at bottom. Look for import and export. Click export and you’ll export out your polypaint as a .psd a photoshop file. After that you’ll want to export out your model. Under tool as an .obj. You’ll have to either retopologize it or use the decimation master plugin for zbrush. I learned that retopology is building a low poly mesh that is usable for outside programs, games and virtual worlds like Second life. Now I don’t know how good it is but I see some guys who are really good at this stuff on youtube. Using Decimation Master plugin.
Some are using it to build all three polygon models. But I seen some who decide to retopologize the low mesh. Then use Decimation Master plugin to build a high end and a mid range poly count mesh of their model.

I guess it’s to make it easier. Because I have found that after decimation master, subtracts polygons from your model sometimes it needs a lot of work on the very lowest mesh. So building one with retopology could be less work. Once you have three meshes though of your model. A high polycount say your aim is no higher then SL max 64k or just aim for 30K as I am going for. Then make two lower model meshes from it. For example 15K and 8-10k for your low polygon count mesh. Export all three of these as .obj files from the tool menu in zbrush.

The result will be three meshes high, middle and low. With a polypaint texture in .psd format. This should all be usable when taking these files let’s say into Maya or Max for UV mapping and then baking your textures some how onto a UVmap that will be built in separate programs. There is also a plugin for max called Multiobj that will import all your meshes at once into Max to make it easier down the road let’s say when you build lots of subtools “other objects” to your models. Example clothing or armor sets etc. Otherwise you’d have to import all of those meshes one at a time into max.

So far though this as far as I have gotten. Unfolding your mesh in Max is what I’m trying to see how to do or make sense of what work I’m doing. Knowing if I am unwrapping the model correctly and making it a clean surface of UV’s I guess to bake my texture is something I’m not sure if I understand. I don’t really know what to look for besides knowing that it has to be completely unwrapped an a flat geometry surface as if I ran your model over with a car and it pancaked out LOL! Also it can’t over lap UV’s. Example the back of your model and the front of your model. They can’t be on top of each other has to be spread out an viewable just as a map would be.

Anyway hope this isn’t more confusing and helps the learning process. I feel I have a long way to go but it’s one a few steps forward so far. lol

im just hoping that between zbrush and photoshop i can swing what i want to do with this…

im not sure on the different meshes, but i know i want to make it as low as possible and still look good.

as far as exporting and using in secondlife, i think sl is ready finally for a full zbrush, and i hope someone can say if they only use zbrush for sl and how they do the process. i do have everything set up right, i can see my sl avatars in zbrush but tomorrow will tell the full story. depending on how far i get, id like to post up too, and show what i have done.

gutsimlord, youa re a bit ahead of me, but like i said i jsut want to keep it short sweet and simple :wink:

i do appreciate you starting this thread and telling what all you have learned too. hopfully we both can do a good tut for others to follow… would be nice :smiley:

Ah no problem, sounds good. I’m not exactly sure what to make of building in SL but it’s a start to more developer minded and eventually hopefully learning some more programming a small amount so I can do scripting. I always wanted to work on games. But this would be I think something that would satisfy if I can understand it all lol. Before I had no idea where to begin luckily the internet is finally exposing us to all the tools necessary and I can finally get my head around some of it.

Also if you get into scripting for SL eventually. Just to expose anyone who wants to learn it. I been sticking with some C programing because of the relation to LSL “Linden Scripting Language” Is very similar to C. I it’s the variables that relate a lot to C. Example int for integer.

There is some ZAO system though that can simplify that. It’s a AO “Animation Override” It’s a hud you can buy for free I think on SL market place. Then use command based programming to add animations to your avatar. It’s much easier just simple string of commands that will trigger your animations in a sequence.

Anyway I am rambling lol. But, I think lack of direction is hard to get passed and yea if I could contribute to making sense of a clear cut simple way to build avatars for SL. That would be cool! Just seems like a good start to help anyone who likes games or virtual worlds. This way what you build can be brought to life at least in SL and maybe make you a few real life bucks on the side if you sell enough lol. I’d def help ya on the tutorial. I think the guru’s seem to be too busy possibly to chime in lol.

Most of the gurus of Zbrush stick to actual modeling and whatnot. The thing with Secondlife is that (last I checked) only some grids supported mesh. Don’t know if it’s a viable option to try to get them in or not.

However, if you are going to use Zbrush for Secondlife meshing become more acquainted with the subtool. You’ll need it. I haven’t looked in to rigging a SL mesh for a body. But they say you can use FBX files. Which means… Maya or Max. Possibly others, but those are the two I know off the top of my head that retain skeleton information.

So, to make a mesh you’ll want to import your avatar mesh. (Just use the obj from the SL site… I don’t know where they’re hiding it now with the site redesign.) Then subtool to add a sphere or whatever and start making your parts from that. Using the underlying avatar as a guide. You could probably use Zspheres… And I have no idea how much a finished mesh would cost in $L, but probably a bit.

Sculpties still seem like a viable alternative at the moment, though. Since they cost a flat rate and you don’t have to come up with all the LOD’s.

When all else fails… Check out the massive selection of tutorials here and on youtube. :smiley:

But to break it down as GutSimLord asked…

  1. Build a mesh in Maya or Zbrush
    2 retopologize it or decimate in zbrush or 3Dcoat
  2. build a UV map with unfold3d or zbrush uv master plugin.
  3. then polypaint in zbrush/photoshop or use ptex with mudbox.
  4. then save out some how a ptex file or not sure how with zbrush save out a polypaint file.
  5. Use maya to bake in those textures onto the low poly count model with a uv map ready.
  6. The result would be something close to the high end polygon model you started out with in zbrush.

You don’t need those steps at all…

  1. Build the mesh in Zbrush. (or Maya…) Import to Zbrush.
  2. Use Zbrush to unwrap your model (Check the plugin section.)
  3. Start polypainting your model
  4. Click Texture > New From Polypaint (Boom texture made.)
  5. Clone Texture Then go to Texture and Export your Texture that’s made for you and conveniently in PSD format.
  6. No need for Maya baking You can do all of that in Zbrush.
  7. Export your model as an obj, and import to Secondlife
  8. Upload the texture after you fix and save it as png, jpg, etc.
  9. Apply texture to model
  10. Enjoy

I guess those would be the steps. I made and uploaded an avatar head in SL that was made, textured, and exported straight from Zbrush right in to SL. When possible I try not to jump between programs but when you must jump from Maya to Zbrush and back again use GOZ (http://www.pixologic.com/zbrush/features/GoZBrush/)

To get a high resolution texture I would follow marcus_civis advice on this inquiry, it works well for me taking stuff into the OS and Second Life grids. Thanks again Marcus. If you dont get your texture from a high poly count the texture is blured, I dont worry about taking in 3 meshes just the high one but there is a limit to the vertex count 65534.

http://www.zbrushcentral.com/showthread.php?163453-Help-PolyPaint-to-Texture-workflow-Answered&p=908617#post908617
Hope this helps

Wazer

i had this once many moons ago - and cant seem to locate it on th web. Many RL interruptions when teaching myself and I am still a beginner with zbrush too as well, but think the uv painting process has changed in zbrush (simplier and easier?) so i am back to figuring out how to make and paint an avatar in ZBrush, then export to blender for rigging. I have found tutorials on the blender side of things ( Machinimatrix.org ) but still havent located the old sl avatar ztl. Perhaps it is also no longer necessary once i learn rigging in blender. but would be good practice for a beginner like me - so if anyone knows where that is - it will be most appreciated…