<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>a special note for Pixelator; even when i paint(in edit mode) on a high poly version of my model…when i paint on the front…i get paint on the back…if i paint on the head…i get paint on the foot!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
(long post, there’s freedom to not read it, 
)
Mason…that is not Zbrush’s fault… Your problem is an old one. UVMapping is having overlaps. You have coincident (is this the english word to say it?) UV vertex. So…when u paint over an area, you are ALSO painting in other areas. That is why the best chance is Uv mapper and Lith.
[ Please… in every thing I say assume to things: I’m a low poly modeller newbie, and I’m an absolute Zbrush newbie. However, I use to study hardly an specific function of a software if I need it (if I don’t, I will never ever touch it, so this detailed uvmapping perhaps can be achieved in Zbrush. If so, maybe someone could show you here. ) ]
Due to the fact that I needed to do it, last moth been managing low pol issues for first time. I can write you (and for all interested) a tut , detailed one, (in my poor english) of the whole mapping proccess. This afternoon I can. I got to end the skin I am making for a friend, but tomorrow surely will be able. Believe me…you will like it. I am terribly happy because it is a very complex task and made it all with freewares. You can do it in a 1/100 of the time if you own Max, or the 20$ Milkshape.
In modelling terms…you’re model looks really cool. You did it with Zbrush? Wow…a low pol modelling solution, also…Zbrush will end up making coffee and capuchinos, one day ;))))
Got some small advice, however. You see the face? look, in your shot is seen that just over the cheek (HIS right one) in the zoom u made…try to turn (if it is possible in ZB )some edges there…The cheek hole goes to deep…yes, over it there’s a bone but…well…I don’t know how it is seen with smoothing normals (does ZB support smoothing normals view and create…? did not find the option…) so maybe it is seen ok with let’s say 50-80 of smoothing, don’t know. But even so…it is a small detail for low pol…u’d better let those sharp corners be made by the texture. It is safer.
In tha area of the face and other, when you just turn an edge’s orientation you get often a rounder shape, and many problems dissapear. Try it if u didn’t know this…
The body modelling is fantastic 
so few pols, and so organic…
I see you don’t know much about uv mapping but in modelling you got it.
Ok…I will tell you something now bout mapping.
Have Max? Then go there, select faces, and make a group from each selection of faces. I think that in both softwares, Milkshape and Max is very easy task to do. I think you just select and assign groups. Well, what a jerk I am. If u have one of those use the tuts from milkshape site. Scarecrow has got the best of all I have found for mapping. For max users, he suggest material Ids for making a single texture for a whole character like in many low pol games is needed. Go to www.swissquake.ch/chumbalumsoft click on milkshape, tutorials. Look for ScareCrow tutorials.
You will not need nothing else. You can model with zbrush (I see you’re confortable enough with it 
) and assign the mappings there. ScareCrow tells you the whole procces with both softwares in a very clear step by step way.
Well, that is all. If you own one of those, you’re done. If not …arg…my own way. The hardest.
UvMapper is great because it recognize (do you realize i’m already writting the tut…shh…don’t tell anyone ;D ) material info per selection, as well as group info, smoothing info, uvmapper regions info, and also can treat detached faces as groups and later on export as a single group once mapping ended.
LithUnwrapper…another free jewel. The problem is that it seems it only like recognize group, or ik link info. Or maybe the one needed for the software to recognize quake II md2, halflife hl, and all that format’s info for understanding animation. Perhaps IK elements, like arm, etc.
So…a problem with converions. Why? because if u where lucky like me as to buy a magazine with TrueSpace 3 (Pc Pro mag) SE included (which treats material per faces info) or maybe you export a model from ZB with material aplied per selecctions (previous to mapping; this is to do the grouping proccess (a mouse keypress in Max or Milkshape)) then u could go on and select faces from upper arm, and assign those a plain color material. Select torso faces and assign another material. And so on. YOU NEED to not let any face forgotten without this. If you do there will be problems. One trick I borrow from wonderful ScareCrow tut is to hide each time, after group assignment each area. That way I do not produce overlaps, either forget a face. Do it so.
Ok, you’ll have you’r multicolor rainbow model. Try to assign BIG areas, so that your skin stays clear and others not so lucky as we are of having Zbrush, can modify slightly the model…it wouldn’t be that hard for them. Your 3d painting would have positioned all. They can easily paint a moustache
So, if your game engine supports cilindric mapping…perhaps is the best. So you reduce seams (a very terrible thing) . My advice: select all torso faces, assign them a material. Assign a material (plain color material). Hide the selected faces. Do the same with upper arm, lower arm. hand. Upper leg, lower leg. Feet. The same with the other side (er…perhaps if you mirror the side is better, and the weld both.Important you do it so.)
One other “material assignement” for face til ears…Another for the back , back-sides of the head and perhaps another for top of it. Well, if you later use cilindric with caps mapping for head…you could make just one material assignment for hair. Later one also could be applied box mapping for that group.
If I don’t forget nothing you’re done. This proccess is ok with any modeller (maybe ZB, I’m a newbie) free or comercial which supports this.
Export it in a format whic carries that info. The bests formats use to be :
-OBJ .My favourite. Carries with material, uvmapping, smoothing normals and other info. It don’t use to modify model. Sometimes softwares tend to invert normals more than with a 3ds, for example.
-x my second favorite. very supported also. can carry all that info (no mtl info, but I don’t use it) uvmaps, (it often flips coordinates, easy to fix) and it can carrie animation info!! So with conv3ds (free, included in direct x SDKs) and using 3ds exports from your animation package, if saving from there allows savig keyframe data field, you’ll be able to keep all anim in x format and import it in a, let’s say, dx8 engine. Cool but off topic ;D
-Cob, the one from Truespace . Pc Magazine gives a 1.0 version for free. it supports material assignment info.Also uv coord and smoothing.
Those are just my favorite, for also their compatibility.
Well…If your package don’t saves in OBJ format (bad thing) then go and convert with free converters, Zbrush or whatever. Free converters, (crossroads, 3dc (limited to 6000 faces) , and many one-only-others-format. many others.)
Once you have: An obj model, with correct material per areas assignments…go and use Grouper tool. Created by a Poser user, I don’t know how, but allows me to directly recognize my material groups in later import in LithUnwrapper.
As you had it without Grouper interaction, you already could treat material groups in Uv Mapper , but much better have access to both freewares.
Ok. Personal opinion. I like more UV Mapper for fixing problems (normals, etc , etc) And LithUnwrapper for organizing and modifying groups.
Why u needed all this complex procces? Well, if read till here (first, you’re a patient person ;D ) you don’t own Max or Milk, no other like them…And in UVMAPPER or lith you don’t seem to have a 3d interface to go rotating the model and selecting specific areas.For groups creation.Hey , forgot Poser, sure it supports Groups…I have 0.000 knowledge of Poser.
NOw, in UV Mapper or -if user Grouper previously- in lith… [ sorry…FIRST…edit/select all…new uv map…then. If no uvs has that model…UV Mapper will ask you to make one map. MAKE A PLANAR, normally with z orientation checked, so that u have the model front view as the one you posted ] …u can go selecting groups (in Lith select by name, in UVM depends on if you used grouper or not, can be select by groups or materials.) .You select let’s say : “Group_01” . You’ll see those faces highlighted. (in lith is good to know you can select by face, vertex or group. By face don’t deform shape once u select. Pay attention to that. ) In both go on and say loudly “create new map” .It will understand you ;). You have plenty of parameters for each map. In Uvmapper is important to know that for face , cilindrical map let’s you tell him which angle of rotation u prefer. You’d prefer to give it an angle so that face is centered and not cut. For not creat seams in the middle of the face–> bad. No 3d interface, so try some values. It is quick.
I use to use first uvmapper for this tasks (hitting ctrl g, brings groups dialog window, so it is quicker) , and once got each group well mapped, if I know Lith is gonna recognize groups, I don’t loose time organizing. I will have no problem in selecting groups although they will be vertex overlapped. If not, lith will only recognize faces and vertex. Take your time to organiza in uvmapper each area. So that no overlapping occurs. Even so…take care…You have to choose thoughtfully each TYPE of mapping per are. Imagine: I have made a material-assignment ( later on in grouper it converted to a group ) of a slection of faces which includes all the head…ok…you’ll have uVs overlapping if just apply a planar mapping there…need a cilindrical…with caps if you’re including hair, and top of the head.
Once you have in UV mapper (or continued in Lith as my very personal and random preference (but all can be done in both)) each group with each type of mapping (if u just wanted plannar maps, you should have -before- made smaller (no more than 180º convex areas) areas as material selections… ) …however is worst as produces more seams, difficult to treat, but I began all bout low pol stuff a month ago, more or less…so don’t know how game engines work. Perhaps they do it so cause it is easier to 2d paint, they don’t use to have a 3d painting package to make a skin.
Once you have this…export to Lith (I will explain as exported, but do it in UVM if you want, you can manage vertex, face or groups individually, however, also in UVM ) …and…fix if vertex overlapping occurs moving vertex…but carefuly. you gotta try to keep same orientation an not do strange things. U see you gotta be thinking all the time
If you did it well (as i did ;D) no overlap once you have (with “select by group” checked) every group in his place. For using the 512 or 256 pixels square texture to his maximun efficiency…you will wish to rotate a group (remember: to select in Lith a group, select by groups, later on switch to face selection…so that when you rotate it proportions of group do not change ) you’ll wish to mirror areas, and scale them. You will be interested to put bigger the face and other detailed areas, and smaller those (shoes, in some cases), so that later your texture will have more/ less pixels there.Don’t do it and will end making an eye with one pixel ;)))
Ok…it is all hard. It is like making a puzzle. remeber to hide and unhide things in Lith or Uv Mapper as it is your convenience each time…and …as it is convenient in all the whole proccess…(modelling, texturing , animation) save continuosly with diferent file names each time you get some success. You’ll end up with 50 versions of your model. You’ll be able to get back when ever. No need to beguin, thing that easily happens.
Once you have a perfect UV Map (ok there are lots of issues left, but perhaps already surpassed post words limit…and u can solve small issues ) …save the model as obj. Save the template. Wonderful Lith lets u even color by groups in template (bmp texture, ready to paint in a 2d package or, much better for newbies like me, use it as texture in Zbrush to 3d-paint it. )
Problems you will find…:
-Seams. can’t be solved easily in Zbrush, I am afraid…I didn’t find the key , at least…One of the best things to do is retouch it your 2d package (photoshop if your lucky, Gimp, Psp, or one of the zillions over ther) those seams. You’ll need that 2d touch however for many things. Using stamp (to clone areas from the perhaps far away chunk of faces (group), but which are sadly adjacent in 3d model ) or similar tool, or just painting near borders, will make it.
-converions. Prepare your self to provide you of dozens of convertors. I have look in everywhere…3dlinks, google, avalon, every where. Got even the most strange converters…If you’re a freeware lover like me
I do have bought some low cost-but-good comercial packages, but sometimes I prefer the free-hard way…A bit paranoic, I know.
-smoothing is lost in some conversions or packages. i did lost it using anim8or. Is a great tool for modelling -animating. I only use it for animate, and some specific tasks. before knowing this of Grouper free tool, and material assignment could be read as a kind of group, I did select an d painfully detached each small area of faces (I made much more chunks than it would be needed, TERRIBLE thing) in Anim8or. This way,and avoiding moving detached areas and hiding them each time, UV Mapper recognized them as group and later on selected: “save as single group” from UVM. Later rework in Lith.
But lost smoothing normals info when saved detached model from Anim8or. Restart again. However, dowloaded OBJ specs…many things can be ascii edited in OBJ. Perhaps smoothing is one of them.
Oops Great Anim8or is in www.anim8or.com . Other tools…you ask me if interested in one, too much work to look for them in my favorites now…
Well…at the end you have a skin-perfect uvmapped OBJ model, and it’s 512x512 texture template for the whole model. This is the way I think works for quake II. Q3 is different. But in an specific game engine, depends.
Go on, import it into ZB, use 3d copy to paint it. If u got a powerful computer, open at the same time a 2d package. You’ll be modifying from time to time in it and refreshing in ZB is the way I have to manage some 3d copy problems I have in Zbrush…perhaps I am to newbie to know well 3d copy cool way to work things…perhaps…
Well…I have the feeling I am forgetting many things…oh, tell me when u find problems…I can’t promise I’ll be so informative, can’t use so much time But seen you as lost as me a moth ago (zero knowledge). Wanted to help in UV creation.
em…forgot one thing…hope you not be angry…er…You could avoid: smoothing problem, groups creation problem, etc…if u used free mapping tool called nPHERNO…but it only exports in Unreal 3d format or in quake 2 MD2 format…I was gonna use it at the beguinning but read in format specs there’s a limit in 4096 vertex…it may be seem much for low pol, but hardware is increasing quickly its power…and besides wanted a method which allowed me using obj format…and which (as I think it does) would serve me also to uvmap High poly models. NPherno mapping tool for Unreal haven check its features…but only found a tool that may serve for unreal to another format conversion…risky thing…for md2 are some more…for example, Quake Modeller from Philip Martin. Or Lith should work.Md2 supports animation…that’s a clear advantage, however.
I really hope no max user or Milkshape user as read from this post more than…"…go to milkshape and look for milkshape/tutorials/scarecrow/skining a model in A) Milkshape B) Max" They will do ALL this in a breeze…but surely still feel better 3d painting than painting texture in 2d. It requires tremendous skills, I think.For a realistic, detailed one, I mean.
I don’t know if wrote milkshape url well. Ask me for URLS, can give em all if needed, but not now. I’m tired of writting and gotta continue painting that low pol model for that friend I said.
pleease…! Tell me I’m in the guiness of long posts…
Er…it maybe considered an off topic question in a Zrbush forum. I firmly know it is not. I consider one cannot pretend to do everything with one program. Sure MANY of the things said here can be more easily and accurately done with zbrush (Anim8or, for example is developed by one single person to give highly generously an animation solution for the comunity…and this a stable package, I have done tasks with other programs in prealpha stage…) but I prefer to have the tool with wich I am more confortable for each task.It oftens does not means that one software is better or worse for that task, it usually is just I happen to find that software tool before, and other random things like that. For 3d Painting…there are too little tools. None free. None of the one or 2 available free, can give good results. That’s why for me is 3d-painting the real important part of Zbrush in my chain of work.
Well, for those patient enough to have read till now, go to have a coffee, lay on bed, relax… ;D
me back to work!
Mark.
applause
