I’ve diligently followed the advice given to me in my last (and first) post. I’ve tried not to rush through the division levels with this head, taking my time for the rough and mid-level details. I’m now about to embark on the detailing and texturing - or maybe not. Let me know if you think this still needs some work on the lower levels.
Thanks in advance for the (much needed) guidance.
Hi Bertrandb. Your head seems fine too me, i think it feels a bit thing. You could give everything a bit more volume and you could rework the forehead/eyebrows creases. Get some picture references.
nice model ! the only crit i can make is that the ears are too high and you can give him a little bit more volume on the jaw.
Hi, I think you have the same problem as I had when I started my current piece.
It looks a little as though the skin is too loose. You need to define the underlying muscle and bone.
I can only say get some reference. Take your camera with you and snap at anybody (or anything) that looks interesting. Invaluable resource.
Keep us posted,
Rob
Bertrandb - Hey man, I’m no professional but here’s what seems to jump out at me as not quite right…
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the naso labial folds above his mouth should end at the top of the “nostril wing” ( or whatever that area is called), not at the base of the nose, unless maybe the guy was really old.
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ears should maybe stick out a bit more, with the backs of the ears out a bit further than the front.
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the base of the skull at rear should be about at the level of the bottom of the ear/bottom of the nose. You don’t really seem to have the back of the skull/base of the neck area defined/established.
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the widest part of the skull/head should be above the ear, slightly to the rear, Your skull appears to be the widest at about the cheeckbone/mid ear level.
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the brow and chin/jaw area could maybe use a little more thickness/mass ( A thicker , (slanted) brow and jawline is a masculine feature.)
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The skull is sort of square shaped from the side profile. Yours seems a little too round. At least from these angles. Consider adding a bit more mass to the front forehead area, as well as the back of the skull. Although. maybe the forehead is ok. Maybe it could use a bit more width instead.
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The ear detail is pretty close, but could maybe use just a bit more work. Particulaly that little nub thing that sticks out over the ear canal.
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eyes are maybe a little close together, but I could be mistaken.
Overall, it seems pretty solid. The actual details, like the nose, mouth etc. are pretty good. It’s more so the overall shapes and masses that could use some tweaking. One thing to consider is having lots of references so when you come to a partucular area, like the ear, look at a dozen or so different images to really see what the universal primary anatomical shapes are, as well as the unique and individual differences. Also, consider taking whatever reference images you have and desaturating them so they’re greyscale. It will be easier to see the forms when the image is black and white as opposed to color.
Good job and good luck!
Thanks a lot guys. Your help is much appreciated. I’ve been using a specific photo reference for this, hence the characteristics such as the slender jaw and so on. But I now realise I should be using not just one but many photographs to anchor my work. I’ll definitely do that.
Fatkid: A particular thanks for taking the time to write. You’ve given me something to do before I go on to detailing. Next time I return to the model I’ll go through your points one after the other. They all make a lot of sense to me in retrospect. (You’ve got a good eye, you should teach or be a professional reviewer).
Just spent a couple of hours tweaking along the suggested lines (squarer head, wider forehead, corrected the naso-labial fold, made the ear stick out more at the back, remodelled the back of the skull and corrected the neck, made skull widest behind the ear…) I’ve left brow and jaw with the same basic structure as I will go for this slightly slender head. I’ve also tweaked the eyes and eye sockets.
I’m not sure I see a great deal of difference but I hope it’s better overall.
I’ll work a bit more on the ears before moving on to the detailing.
Detailing and texturing. C&C still welcome. I’m not quite finished yet [attach=80898]MaleHeadWIP3.jpg[/attach]
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Nice texturing. The model is coming along well. Can you post more angles (front / left / right) so we may provide C&C on form.
Reminds me of Paul Weller btw.
Thanks for stopping by Elexir.
Here is a bunch of other angles.
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Oops, sorry, it’s not exactly front/left/right, but the model is 99 per cent symetrical at this stage.
Oh well, I guess no news is good news
Looks pretty good. I am glad to see you fixed the back of the head.
Generally speaking, the proportions are OK. The ears are too high on the head though. As a general rule the top of the ear lines-up with the center line of the eye, and exends to somewhere between the tip of the nose and the mouth, depending on age etc… You should wiki the pinna (ear) anatomy for a good reference on the basic make-up of the ear. You are incorrect in a few places. The Concha (hollow at the opening to ear canal) and Crus of helix (the part that rounds-into the Concha from the helix (the outer cartilage of the ear)) need some tweeking.
Now, you may not care about this if you intend to cover the ear with hair, for instance, but it might be good form to get it right, especially if you intend to reuse the model.
The frown looks to have an extra fold that seems unnatural. I am referring to the outer-most crease. The angle of the fold does not seem to fit with the general mechanics of how they would be created from the tensing of the Corrugator on Frontalis muscles.
Minor crits really. it is coming on very well, and I am particularly impressed with the texturing.
Hi Elixir, very kind of you to take the time.
I can fix the ear some more. The only thing that might be difficult is to lower it, as I fear it will interfere with the texturing and stretch the skin. That’s something I think has to be fixed at the topology level on my base mesh, which I do intend to use again. So I’ll do that.
Generally the ear is the bit I like least. I’ve found it very difficult to avoid blobbiness (i.e., I can’t really get the shape of the cartilage to flow, regardless of which division level I use, it always ends up looking lumpy. Again, it may be partly a topology problem as this area of the mesh is very stretched due to insufficient number of edge loops on the base mesh. Another reason to start again from scratch.)
I see what you mean with the frown. I can get rid of this one easily.
I think I’ll finish this model now, adding the changes you suggested, and keep the more heavy duty stuff such as the bottom-up remodeling of the ear for my next try - starting again from scratch with a retopologised base mesh.
Thanks for your comment about the texturing. I’ve spent quite a lot of time on this. I stored the fine pore and wrinkle details in a separate layer and I find the ability to tweak the intensity fantastic. The colour was applied using a mixture of skin textures and standard brushes with colours picked from different areas of the texture map - just applying and superimposing layers for hours on end… Glad you like it.
(By the way, credits to Monsieur Legrain, whose wax skin material I’ve been using for these renders - It’s a very flattering mat for showing off skin textures).
EDIT: The brow was an experiment (black colour and displacement using a very fine brush at the highest subdivision level. I’m also deeply unhappy about it so any suggestion for nice, natural-looking brows that would not involve just projecting a photo would be highly welcome.)
Post your base mesh in Frame mode from front and side, perhaps some suggestions on it may help you with your next model.
Thanks Elixir. I really appreciate your help.
Here’s the base mesh, done in Blender using edgeloops.
It’s based on a photo ref, though not one that looks much like the character in the end.
Your base mesh looks to be over-detailed in places and not detailed enough in others. Please don’t think I am pulling it to peices… it’s just my observation, and someone else may dissagree.
The ear area has very little detail, in opposition to the eyes, nose and mouth, which have considerably more. What this may lead to is a higher polycount than you really need, because you may be subD-ing more to get the required details in the ear. What I am trying to say is there needs to be more balance. This can of course be rectified quite easily by bringing the ear detail up to the same level as the eyes on our base mesh. What I have found with ears (if you are building from a primitive) is that you need to create more edge loops, which is essentially providing you with the extrusion that you are looking for in the ear.
Here is a link to an experiment I took part in to build a base mesh in ZB from a cube using edgeloops. For the level of detail you have in the rest of the face I would expect something more like what I have (in the link) as far as ear detail (not that I am any Guru). Hope this helps.
http://www.zbrushcentral.com/zbc/showthread.php?p=349197#post349197
Hi Elixir. I suspected that was the case. I noticed while sculpting that I was seeing huge differences in density in various parts of the mesh, and obviously not in the areas where I needed them.
This mesh is not as bad as previous ones, but I do find it one of the most difficult parts of the job. Trying to get reasonable densities in some areas and not in others without ending up creatings tris everywhere is a real puzzle. Your mesh looks very elegant in this respect. I’m going to save it and have a very good look at it.
There is nothing great about my mesh, but thanks for the compliment. It was, in truth, just the best I could do with just edge looping, which can be quite limiting. The way to go is retopology, but it tends to crash A LOT. I am in the middle of retopologizing a new base mesh which should put that one to shame. I actually learned a lot from this thread, which changed my outlook on edge loop and flow:
http://www.subdivisionmodeling.com/forums/showthread.php?t=907
You should take a look, if you are interested in creating a really good base mesh.
Thanks mate. Another great reference. I’ve immediately bookmarked it.
I’m rendering a version of my model right now with a few clothes and accessories. I’ll post it as soon as it’s cooked.
Thanks again for your fantastic help.