Humanoid chess set - The Rook

[Fingus]

Hey there ZBC. Been a member for a little while but I’ve never gotten around to posting anything. If some of you are members at Polycount you might have seen me post this over there. I feel that I didn’t get a lot of feedback over there, but I figure that is because Polycount is a game art forum and my model is a cinematic budget character. I think he will feel much more at home over here.

Now a little background on my project.
I’m an Animation and VFX major at the Academy of Art University in San Francisco. This semester I am taking a class called Organic Modeling 2 where we are free to do anything we want as long as it’s organic. Our teacher encouraged us to make a realistic sculpt of a real person or animal, but I feel I would be more inspired if I could work on an original concept.
I cooked up the following setting:

A small kingdom ruled over by a powerful wizard, he is known as the Wizard King. It’s a peaceful kingdom, but it is surrounded by nations and countries that are always at war with each other. The kingdom has avoided conflict because they have taken a neutral stance and because the other countries fear the Wizard King’s powerful magic.
However lately tensions have been rising, and the war has moved closer to the kingdom’s borders. The Wizard King has slowly grown more paranoid and is spiraling into madness.
Using his powerful magic he merges men and beasts and weapons into powerful guardians. Being an avid chess player he shapes them after chess pieces. He merges his guard and their horses into agile and deadly Knights, his advisors are joined with predatory birds for fast flying Bishops, elephants seized from a traveling circus got spliced with his strongest masons and stoneworkers into the monstrous Rooks. Even his beloved wife was sacrificed in his madness and transformed into the tormented yet lethal Queen piece.

And I decided I wanted to do the Rook piece. In the future I might do the rest of the set when I get the time.

Here is my concept art:

I just got him cleaned up and ready for zBrush so the following updates will probably be of a more zBrushy nature.

Looking forward to feedback and help. I’m still really green at this software

edit: Is there a way to upload multiple attachments. Having to upload and insert all my images individually is a bit of a pain in the ass…

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[SolidSnakexxx]

Really like the concept… Can’t wait to see the zb sculpt

[locusta]

Very, very unique concept. Great drawing too.

Look forward what becomes with that one.

[tyrellcorp]

wow …arent you lucky… i mean to have a uni thats teaches sculpting with zbrush…
We dont get that over here ( UK) if we want to learn that we would have to do it off our own backs.

[guringo]

locusta/solidsnakexxx - what pray tell does NOT qualify as a cool concept these days…?

Fingus,

You state that this is a class for organic modeling and that the prof’ encourages taking on a realistic bust or animal and yet you felt compelled to do something that you could better enjoy or be inspired by…

You seem to not realize (yet) just how wrong that is… are you in class to learn or wow your mates? Can you take on an assignment as is, or must you first convert it to your liking? There’s a huge difference between making use of fantasy and absolving yourself thru it. For instance, Medusa could be a hyper-realistic woman with realistic snakes coming out of her head and even your sumo-rook could have started out as a realistic obese man…

But no, you had to go and spend time on a backstory. And a pretty awful one at that; you don’t need for the one decent wizard-king in your own fantasy-world to go batsh*t-cuckoo in order to conjure some badass monsters, with or without a chess-game theme. That’s like LOTR starting off with Gandalf pulling a hobbit-centipede for kicks -where do you go from there?

And lets pretend that this was for a fantasy monster workshop - you neglected to put it thru a fantasy/reality-check;

The overall body-shape - Homer Simpsons… hands - puny, and were he to manage in grabbing a human without toppling over (weight distribution) what then? Fling it towards its mouth and hope his monoscopic vision is up to the task? Arms are way too short to do anything more than pat its belly, and likewise, you came up with 4 kinds of tusks -and none can actually serve any purpose other than decor. And the belt of rings, again, bling for bling’s sake.

I do hope you take this as a wake up call, doing things you’re more comfortable tackling on than tackling on what has been set on your plate, and would actually further you professionally, is not something anyone here ought to encourage (I’m looking at you locusta/snakexxx -lol)…

While you’re just starting out, this is a very common and very wrong ‘off-course’ approach, or form of (mis)coping, that is very ‘telling’ about a person/artist -and will, more likely than not, disqualify you from pretty much any position in the industry. By the same token, you’re much more likely to gain the community’s respect for submitting a work that’s half as good as your monster but truly contends with the challenges, than the other way around…you just need to re-orient yourself to that end,

all the best to you, -G

[Fingus]

Guringo.

I wish I had posted here earlier because this is exactly the kind of response I was hoping for. It is indeed a wake up call and you are spot on with a lot of your criticism, especially considering the reality check. I am not very good at self criticism because I tend to lose sight of the big picture. But I have to object to the assumption that I did this to wow my classmates or feed my ego, my intentions were just to have fun with the project while I learn a new toolset. I didn’t go down this path intentionally. I just never had anyone call me out on it like you just did. Maybe I’m being apologetic… and I honestly can’t object to that. Thank you for giving it to me straight instead of just shaking your head and moving on, I really appreciate harsh criticism.

Well I have less than a month left to complete this guy, and I’m too far into the process to turn around and do any major changes now. I’ll push ahead and finalize him, stylized as he may be. In the future I plan to do work that conforms less with my own bias. for instance I intend to do a realistic head or body double of an actor and a “pixar-style” cartoony character. Both are disciplines I feel are very relevant for the industry.

[guringo]

Fingus,

awesome, I’m glad I bet on you… and congrats on having enough smarts to know when to take it on the chin…

As to your objection (wow/ego), fair enough, but check out the following, it’s the relevant segment from something I posted a year ago -

Impartiality is paramount —

Ever started an artwork/project only to lose interest/steam/mojo?
Is your backburner some project retirement home no one visits…?
If so, you sir/madam have a case of the artist’s mental clap, also known as perfectionism…

Here’s what happens, perfectionism leads to overwhelmingness, which in
turn leads to procrastination (David M. Burns, MD, author of 15 yr bestseller on cognitive therapy,“Feeling Good”) and it can go on to self-invalidation and self-depreciation, you get the idea…

Why? Cuz shooting for the moon is shooting yourself in the foot. The greater you bloat your goal, the more you ‘lucrativate’ it, the greater you’re screwing with your depth-perception - The remedy is setting average/moderate goals -weekly, daily, and even per session, stick to it and you’ll be nipping it in the bud and your stamina will stay the course…

One great little aid for hardcore perfectionists- the egg-timer. Set it for 45-55 min session and make sure to actually break for 10 - even/especially/whatever… this ‘training’ is far more important in the longrun than whatever task you were in the middle of…

And moderating your goals doesn’t mean being average/mediocre, it just means accomplishing things with positive bio-feedback, and ease, before proceeding forth.

Training doesn’t make ‘perfect’, it makes mastery… and if resistance is futile, persistence is fertile…

And we’re back…and you get to decide if and how “perfectionism” has been screwing with you… either way, I don’t see you as having such base motives as I alleged (intended as shock treatment in my defense) but I did chop out a whole other bit about expanding the scope to include a complete chess set.

To me that said a whole lot about your process… and it’s not just how a chess-set of characters is one tall order, it’s more so how you didn’t get there legitimately; you cheated yourself by having a paranoid wizard-king summon them up, pretty much guaranteeing that you’ll burn out way before the finish line and all because there’s no heartbeat to it, because that wasn’t inspired, it was, imo, summoned, SOMETHING BIG AND DAZZLING -something that makes one’s eyes turn to cartoon sparkles with a big crazy grin… iow, perfectionism… and don’t take that term to be an affliction, it’s really more a work hazard, more common than jock itch…

Now were you to actually see it thru, that’d be way worse, it would be like give him a plastic shovel and he’s happy for the day sort of worse…

When you have a ‘live one’, it can fast-forward the weeks and months and sustain you, but if I were in your shoes, I’d rather not catch the bug just yet - you want as much time beforehand to pick up as many skills and face as many challenges so that when the muses pull your number, you’re ready for it…

cheers, -G

[system]

Fingus,

awesome, I’m glad I bet on you… and congrats on having enough smarts to know when to take it on the chin…

As to your objection (wow/ego), fair enough, but check out the following, it’s the relevant segment from something I posted a year ago -

Impartiality is paramount —

Ever started an artwork/project only to lose interest/steam/mojo?
Is your backburner some project retirement home no one visits…?
If so, you sir/madam have a case of the artist’s mental clap, also known as perfectionism…

Here’s what happens, perfectionism leads to overwhelmingness, which in
turn leads to procrastination (David M. Burns, MD, author of 15 yr bestseller on cognitive therapy,“Feeling Good”) and it can go on to self-invalidation and self-depreciation, you get the idea…

Why? Cuz shooting for the moon is shooting yourself in the foot. The greater you bloat your goal, the more you ‘lucrativate’ it, the greater you’re screwing with your depth-perception - The remedy is setting average/moderate goals -weekly, daily, and even per session, stick to it and you’ll be nipping it in the bud and your stamina will stay the course…

One great little aid for hardcore perfectionists- the egg-timer. Set it for 45-55 min session and make sure to actually break for 10 - even/especially/whatever… this ‘training’ is far more important in the longrun than whatever task you were in the middle of…

And moderating your goals doesn’t mean being average/mediocre, it just means accomplishing things with positive bio-feedback, and ease, before proceeding forth.

Training doesn’t make ‘perfect’, it makes mastery… and if resistance is futile, persistence is fertile…

And we’re back…and you get to decide if and how “perfectionism” has been screwing with you… either way, I don’t see you as having such base motives as I alleged (intended as shock treatment in my defense) but I did chop out a whole other bit about expanding the scope to include a complete chess set.

To me that said a whole lot about your process… and it’s not just how a chess-set of characters is one tall order, it’s more so how you didn’t get there legitimately; you cheated yourself by having a paranoid wizard-king summon them up, pretty much guaranteeing that you’ll burn out way before the finish line and all because there’s no heartbeat to it, because that wasn’t inspired, it was, imo, summoned, SOMETHING BIG AND DAZZLING -something that makes one’s eyes turn to cartoon sparkles with a big crazy grin… iow, perfectionism… and don’t take that term to be an affliction, it’s really more a work hazard, more common than jock itch…

Now were you to actually see it thru, that’d be way worse, it would be like give him a plastic shovel and he’s happy for the day sort of worse…

When you have a ‘live one’, it can fast-forward the weeks and months and sustain you, but if I were in your shoes, I’d rather not catch the bug just yet - you want as much time beforehand to pick up as many skills and face as many challenges so that when the muses pull your number, you’re ready for it…

cheers, -G

You Sir, just reached to the darkest corners of my personality and hit me hard… So obvious yet so hard to control. I will try to follow some of those advices in the near future.

Regards!

[guringo]

You Sir, just reached to the darkest corners of my personality and hit me hard… So obvious yet so hard to control. I will try to follow some of those advices in the near future.

Regards!

thanks nicomic, great compliment if I say so myself… and for lack of a better sign-off, forever endeavor, -G

[guringo]

Fingus,

I owe you an apology; pulling all-nighters for an entire week made me way more irritable than usual, as such, I regret and apologize for the scold-like tone…

-g

[Fingus]

No offense taken man. I’m an adult after all. I actually like it when my critiques are a slap in the face, it makes me contemplate them more.

After some technical issues I’ve finally been able to start sculpting him. Immediately I notice that the proportions suck and that the fat folds look completely wrong. Thank god this is easy to fix in zBrush.
I also discovered the Gravity modifier under brush settings and I love it! Using it on a FormSoftB brush with a rounded intensity curve makes for a wonderful brush for doing heavy fat folds.

I noticed that his balance got completely screwed up in the process, as you can see in the side view. Is there a way for the transpose tools to effect all of the subtools at once? It’s a pain in the ass having to reposition every single one after I have made some changes.

[system]

Howdy,

I think what you’re looking for is Transpose Master. Go to the downloads page on the Pixo site…

http://www.pixologic.com/zbrush/downloadcenter/zplugins/

“Transpose Master allows you to pose a model with multiple SubTools by creating one combined model of the lowest resolution level of each SubTool. Once this low rez version is posed you can transfer the pose back to your original high rez model at the click of a button.”

[guringo]

Fingus,

see how scaling the head down in height gives him way more weight, makes him more ominous, etc…? I’d say that ‘proportions’, for a lack of a better term, is a visual language in its own right…

p.s. you’re gonna love transpose master…

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[Fingus]

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[froyd]

I´m glad that I didnt miss this thread - quite galvanizing to read your dialog, Fingus and Guringo, thanks for the jolt! Its unpleasant, but favourably upsetting to recognize myself in keen criticism at someone else - in fact, its rather seldom and (for me) it needs that kind of sharpness to make me seriously think about how that relates to myself.

thank you, sirs!

froyd

[AmbientShade]

I have to agree with guringo here. And being a student myself, I know the headache of realizing a design is crap (no offense) and feeling like there’s no way to change it before the due date. Yet you stated you have just about a month before you have to submit it. I come from a school where 2 weeks to a month is all we have from start to finish - on top of juggling other classes - and are still expected to produce the best work possible. You have the base concept down and there are parts of this that can work if you just take a better approach at the design. I don’t think it would take a lot of reworking to make this character believable and functional. While I have no idea what your daily schedule is, I would say if you spent just the better part of a weekend working it over, you could produce some pretty decent results, especially in ZBrush.

It does have interesting concepts - the size fits the purpose of the character. I think overall, its the proportions that you’re falling short on. The arms and hands - as guringo pointed out - aren’t functional, and its legs aren’t sturdy enough to support all that weight. I saw the tusks as tentacles until they were said to be tusks. But as tusks, the curvature you chose again makes them rather pointless. Maybe with a creature like this the arms dont serve much purpose beyond gorging itself and instead its massive feet are where the real power is. These are just hints of suggestions off the top of my head. Along with making it more organic and less cartoonish.

Just my point of view, not that it was asked for. I just thought I’d offer up a few suggestions from the perspective of another student.

Good luck.

*Edited to add: just realized the age of this thread, so most of what I’ve said is probably pointless by now. Even still, good luck.

[Fingus]

[thumbnail.jpg[/ATT]%3C/font%3E"]](http://%3Cfont%20color=%22#9A9A9A%22%3E[ATT=230217)

Remember this guy? Man, I have not been good at updating at all… But in my defense most of the work since then went into changing proportions, fixing some uneven and bugged topology and general research, troubleshooting and tutorials. Most of the detailing was done over one week or so, and I was way too busy to take the time to update then.

So here ya go. This is the "final" version. Final in that it's what I'm handing in to my teacher. There is still work to be done on the rings and belt ornaments especially. I will try to find the time to finish and pose him, and maybe do some texturing as well, so any feedback is still extremely welcome. Some things I know will be adressed: I intend to scale up the tusks, I just forgot. The legs are really short, and that is intentional. The idea is that he just runs straight ahead and rams into people and buildings with his fat heavy body so I figured giving him short stubby legs would make him look unbalanced and clumsy. <iframe src="http://player.vimeo.com/video/17869214" frameborder="0" height="400" width="600"></iframe>[](http://vimeo.com/17869214)

[amph]

I love it!!! Very nice control of the shape…and the style is very fresh!!

[Fingus]

I did some close up BRP renders as well because the quality of the video wasn’t that sharp, also some of the fine detail was lost in the MentalRay render because I didn’t have time to fine tune the displacement values.

[face_closeup.jpg[/ATT]%3Cbr%20/%3E%0A%3C/font%3E"]](http://%3Cfont%20color=%22#9A9A9A%22%3E[ATT=230303)

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[Peter_Folke]

?Is this a Cyclophant?
-Nice model:)