After a bit more experimenting with this issue, I found that only hiding geometry in the top subtool matters to avoid scale and offset getting zero’d out. So a simple workaround I did was to make the top subtool a tiny triangle that is there just so I don’t have to worry about this happening.
mucky_wet_noodle - Partially hidden top subtool causing the problem
eh?! Great find! I thought it had something to do with cloning, duplicating or
appending (which it could possibly still have something to do with it).
Aberrant - It would be good if it put in other numbers for all your subtools
other than 1,0,0,0 because just like what mucky_wet_noodle says you will
have importing issues with those values.
For every different sized piece of geometry you bring into Zbrush gets
different values in your export section. They are consistent with each piece
coming in. I THINK its when you start merging pieces together that you
could run into problems. I’m still not sure where this problem comes from,
but its good to see that mucky_wet_noodle has found a lead. Infact that
makes a lot of sense because in Zbrush’s mind the object has changed in
size!
It would be good if scale/offset remained at 1,0,0,0! If Zbrush needs to
scale things for it to calculate so many polygons, then do it behind the
scenes.
removed
Hey guys, Some really helpful advice in here. And some of it worked for me but not 100%. I would say 90%.
As a professional in the game industry this can be incredibly frustrating for myself and others on the team. And has cost us a lot of time.
Originally the problem was that my sculpt did not match up with the skeleton anymore in 3dmax when originally everything was just fine. So I am guessing during the sculpting stage some things got changed. Okay… Well, now knowing how things work in Zbrush and the ways to solve the problem I go ahead and give that a shot.
and… IT WORKS! almost…
Now the model is no longer tiny, but instead is 1.5 times bigger than the rig. After I got the correct scale and translation numbers off the correct mesh. Here was my process to be clear:
-
Fresh restart of Zbrush
-
Selected SimpleBrush and Import correct mesh with correct scale
-
Select SimpleBrush again (just to be safe) and load the problem Ztool
-
Copy over manually all translation and scale numbers FROM corrent mesh, to the problem Ztool ( I do this for the top tool only because I noticed it changes the scale for all other subtools.)
-
I then save the problem tool out as a new Ztool (DID NOT EXPORT because there are too many darn subtools).
-
Restart Zbrush to have a clean slate to work in.
-
Load the problem Ztool with the new export numbers. And then import the correct mesh (by selecting SimpleBrush and then importing).
-
Append correct mesh into problem Ztool to check if they match
AND…
still wrong.
I’ve tried many many other techniques, some mentioned and others I tried on my own. Nothin seems to work. So for now I plan on having two versions of the in game low poly mesh. One for baking the normals and AO and then another that is scaled up in 3dMax and manually fit to the animator’s rig… NOT fun to worry about this kind of thing…
Any updates on this issue would be amazing. And any help would be greatly appreciated! Thanks!
- KP
Guys, upon creation of a Ztool from an OBJ the first time, type the numbers in a text document, save the text document with your Ztools.
When Zbrush magically looses the info, type it back in from the text document.
Works 100% of the time.
Hello
Here is a plug-in that will allow you to copy and paste your values. Plus you can load the original obj to get the values.
Hope this helps.
Paul
Has anyone had the issue of doing retopo. Exporting the new topo. Tweaking it in an external app like maya. Reimporting the new topo and selecting it as the new topo only too have it either bigger or moved? Freakin headache.
I found by chance. That if you do a project all on level one on the model. Then delete the highres untopologized model and select the newly projected topology in your zsphere edit topo, its back to normal. Wow.
She sells, sea shells, by the sea shore…
Nevermind. It doesn’t work:/ was a freak happening.
KPtoons - You have do type in those values for all your subtools, not just the
top one. I’d check out the little program gabo1991 has made
gabo1991 - Well done on making that program. I’ll be checking that out later
for sure.
brettSinclair - I have had that problem and the way how I got around it was
to bring in a cube onebyonebyone (shouldnt matter). Append the “edit
topology” object to that cube (and have it selected). import another
onebyonebyone cube, and append the “rigging” topology to that one (and
have it selected). Then click on a zsphere and do your regular re-topology
workflow. And it should line up sweet. That export problem gets its fingers
into everything MAN!!! YAARRRRRGGHHH!!!
Hey Sadamhu, Its seems my method actually did work. I just forgot too do somethings when i added the new topo mesh. Lol. But jeez. This is a nightmare. I really hope they make this easier and better. 3dcoat has an amazing retopo tool set. I just don’t own a licence for it :P.
Hello
Actually Marcus Burgess wrote that plug-in not me. 
It should help though.
Paul
Was having similar issues in my ZBrush > Max 2011 workflow with OBJs - have read the entire thread and believe I have tried all of these work arounds before without consistent positive results, but will give it another go with some of my older models to test.
What I did was finally just export everything at a level 1 - reset all axis inside of Max - reimport and then resproject all of my levels up to 4 since I was only that far on my 19 subtools - so far I have been using the resetscale button and have had no further issues - /fingers crossed.
OOh sorry Paul I forgot to reply to you about how I got on with that script,
you gave me the link to. I have had about a 15-20 min play with it and found
its not working for me. I thought I knew how to use it, but I guess I don’t fully
understand the whole scale bug problem to be able to utilize the script, when
it seems self-explanitory. Also I have adapted to the problem and tried
working around it by exporting only what I need to Maya for reference no
matter what the scale (pain in the ass…). occasionally when I import I get
screwed scales. But I haven’t really had much time to have a good poke
around with the script. When I get some more time I’ll check it out.
Sadam
The bug is some subtools are losing their values in the Export Sub-Palette. Now the thing to understand is that it will be very rare for your tools to have values like this:
Scale = 1
Offset X = 0
Offset Y = 0
Offset z = 0
It is more common to have crazy values like: (these are just made up numbers. Every tool will have different numbers)
Scale = 34.6879
Offset X = 2.123
Offset Y = -1.9080
Offset Z =0.9898
This is were the bug comes into play. If you have a tool with lets say 5 subtools on it. All of the Scale and Offsets values should be exactly the same like this example.
Scale = 34.6879
Offset X = 2.123
Offset Y = -1.9080
Offset Z =0.9898
What will happen is some of your subtools for a reason will change back to:
Scale = 1
Offset X = 0
Offset Y = 0
Offset z = 0
The plug-in will allow you to copy & paste the correct values which are:
Scale = 34.6879
Offset X = 2.123
Offset Y = -1.9080
Offset Z =0.9898
into the ones that have these values
Scale = 1
Offset X = 0
Offset Y = 0
Offset z = 0
Just remember all subtools should have the exact Scale and Offset values.
Hopefully this helps.
Paul
Thats exactly how I thought this bug worked. Your imported object is
scaled and offset by its placement and size to fit the sculptable yeild that
Zbrush is capable of, would that be right? Thats the whole reason of the
scale and offset values?
For some reason when I ran the script my subtools would get smaller. Also
does this script paste the values into the current subtool only? or does it
paste the values into each subtool. The reason I ask is because:
I noticed on several occasions that after you have entered the correct
values for the 1st subtool, those values cascade down through your other 4
subtools. Which makes sense. BUT something makes me think that each
subtool has its own independant scale/offset values. Because as I entered
the values for lets say the 3rd subtool in my list (which could be the
problem subtool), I noticed that as I clicked in the textbox of the scale it
quickly changed from 1 to 14.8945 (this can be different depending on the
volume of your object). Which also makes me think that the prolem comes
from a cloned/duplicated/imported/merged/mirrored subtool. But I’m not
certain of this because I am usually doing everything I can to avoid the
issue and get on with the job. HEHE!
Just what I have seen…
From what I found, this is another bug with the export dialog. When you change the value in say, your top subtool then select another subtool, it looks like the value is the same but what is happening is the value is just not updating in the export options. To test this, try changing the value in the top subtool, save, then init zbrush. Re-open the tool and select one of the subtools to see if the value cascaded down. For me this wasn’t the case. I had to use the script to copy the correct value > select the next subtool down > paste value > copy value > select next subtool down > paste value… and so on. I don’t think the value stores in memory so I had to keep copying and pasting.
Is this a problem with zbrush units? There must be some type of unit system in zbrush now. I created a sphere in maya, my unit grid is set to meters so this sphere is about 6.5 tall. When i bring it into zbrush the scale is 327.416351. Zbrush didn’t used to have a unit system, Is this causing problems now?
mucky_wet_noodle - Makes me think that the export dialog box was meant
to be for each subtool, but parts of the program still thinks that its for the
whole tool. A really common programming problem. Variables that are
supposed to be local are global and are being unessesarily shared by certain
functions.
kind of like this:
for n = 1 to 100
gosub boing
next n
boing:
print “hello”
n = n + 1 '<-- whoops, this line is not supposed to be here.
return
Excuse my old lame ass basic programming language but here in this
program you would expect 100 hello’s down the screen, instead only 50
appear. because n’s value is getting added by 1 without us knowing. Just
think of how long the program of the function that is the export palette
would be, and how a simple error like this can have you tearing out your
hair trying to find where n gets added by 1 (or something similar).
Unfortunately there looks like theres quite a bit of this throughout Zbrush,
Which makes me tempted to take note on every little thing I come across
like this, and present it on youtube in one of the threads here. For example,
when you have not saved your tool and you decide to quit zbrush, and it
asks you if you want to save your document. So you click YES! instead it
saves a .ZBR instead of a .ZTL. And you lose that 45 mins of work on your
object, whoops! Very simple mistake and every newbie has to go through it.
But nevermind Z4 looks like they are getting closer to release :lol:.
nwargasm - Zbrush halves the size of your objects bounding box. BUT it
doesn’t do exactly half (but pretty close). Import a 1000x1000x1000 cube,
the number should be 500, instead its 499.999969. I have no real idea why
it has units in Zbrush when everything is relative. Which means they should
be all be behind the scenes OR if there was some consistency. Like scale
staying at 1, It’s cool that Zbrush is all organic, but maybe a bit too
organic. Now its time to work on the other end of its spectrum. Make it so
that Zbrush can have modelling tools to the point where you can leave
maya for just animating and rendering.
OK, I think I read this somewhere else or it could have been someone in
here. So I’m just going to confirm what I read somewhere:lol:. If you save
your to subtool partially hidden then you have basically screwed your
scale/offset.
The link that Paul has put on here to a script that fixes the scale offset by
using a previous tool with correct values works great! (post #93).
When you are ready to start appending sutools I’d totally recommend to
save your values to a file either by writing them down or using that
script(use the script use the script!).
I guess when you are making a character you would start off with the body
which would be your top subtool. Then you would add clothing. Eventually
your clothing would coverup everything but the head and hands. So you
would just polygroup your character, and just have the head and hands
visible. Thats when you save your work and screw up your import/export
values. AND this will happen to any other subtool that you have partially
hidden too.
I’m also gussing that in Nickz case he must have been detailing a hand
perhaps, with the rest of the body hidden at about 3am :lol:. saved it at the
point where he was at, and went to bed. several days later trying out his
rig or whatnot in Maya and finding his exported character all messed up.
Short answer don’t save your work with partially hidden subtools.
I just had a good test session with subtools. Hiding, saving then intializing,
reloading and checking, reseting values. with values coming out as 0,0,0,0
for any subtool that was hidden when saving.
So it would be good that behind the scenes the object is saved to the file
as if it was completely visible. That would eradicate this problem.
I have just solved my scaling issue. The mistake (if you can call it that eh pixologic?) was that I decimated my largest object (which was the body of my chr). In order to do this I deleted it from my subtools and loaded it in seperately in order to decimate it (it kept crashing with all the other sub tools). Then I re-appended it back into the main sculpt -big mistake as this obviously change the scaling.
How I sorted it was by deleting the body subtool in the bad sculpt, saving the rest of the subtools as a fresh ztl. Going back to a version of the body I knew was correct scale, then use sub tool master to multi append from the file i saved (the one minus the “bad” body). This worked.
I am glad, I had just spent weeks rigging the chr up in max with morph target skinning, the full monty etc, so I had to get the original scale back lol
This is happening to me too!