I following tutorial where guy use TOPOLOGY reconstruction of his ZSphere base mesh. Why does he do this ? is it because he want to add polygons or subdivision level or what ? I can’t figure out this ?
The retopology features allow you to think about topology (edge flow and other things that are necessary for quality animation) after you’ve been creative. Under the “old school” of modeling, you had to create your ideal topology first, and then work within that model’s limitations while you sculpt. This could end up becoming restrictive because you’d often come up with an idea that just wasn’t possible with the model’s topology. You would then have to construct a new mesh and lose everything you’d done up to that point, or just forego the idea altogether and continue with the topology you’ve got.
Now with ZBrush 3.1 you can sculpt and paint without any care at all for topology. Just be creative and come up with a model that you really like. After that, you can then use the retopology features to construct an animation-friendly mesh that is ideal for the model you’ve created. ZBrush can even transfer your detailing and painting to the new topology. It’s a whole new way of working, and is meant specifically to free your creativity.
Of course, if you’re only using the model in ZBrush for illustration you don’t need to worry about topology at all. That’s only a concern when you’re going to be animating the model.
Thanks AURICK. I think I starting to get it. But ZBRUSH is so powerful. Why would I have any problems with my mesh (if I use my mesh for posing or animation in other app) if I start with low poly base mesh made of ZSpheres and than going up and up with Subd Level and details ? I am not sure that i understand why would I use TOPOLOGY if I have clear main idea and picture in front of me (or above my monitor:D) so that I can make just quality base mesh? Why should I RETOPOLOGYZE something or use TOPOLOGY anyway, except when I make cloth to character in Z3.
Thanks a lot again on help.
Topology isn’t so important in Zbrush as it is going to be in other programs, like Aurick said. The more you take your objects into say Poser, Maya, or 3dsMax and try to rig them with your current zsphere topology… you’ll notice that your arms, legs, and other appendages don’t bend/deform quite as they should. I mean… they’ll be close, but there will always be that somewhat “wonkiness” about it. dunno if that’s the right word. Sounded good though. 
You may also notice that your facial topology doesn’t morph as easily. Try downloading some models and take a look under the hood. Also, I would google the web for “topology flow”. There are many sites on the subject and it’s importance not only with animation but modeling in general. I used to say “pfffffffft, whatever!” to topology too, until I started rigging and animating. Good topology is like butter. Good luck to ya.
So you hitted me in painful spot:lol: I really NEED this ZSphere meshes (characters) to be rigged and posed or animated in Poser 7. And now you say that I may have problems with TOPOLOGY due rigging my mesh. How should I avoid this problem? Is there any tutorial on the subjest of “how to build your ZBRUSH mesh and rigg it inside of other app” ?:rolleyes:
ZSpheres are an object generator. Much like NURBS, although much more powerful. Ultimately, though, you have limited control over the exact polygon structure of the model. Even the best ZSphere master out there is probably not going to be able to create a perfectly animateable mesh from ZSpheres. Even if he could, it would require a lot more time and effort than the alternative.
That’s where retopology comes into play. You use your initial ZSphere structure just as a guideline so that you can quickly get up and running with sculpting. When you’re done, you use the retopology features, which give you TOTAL control over the polygon structure and edge flows of the model.
So in a nutshell: ZSpheres do not create meshes that animate well. Retopology does. THAT is what topology is for. (To answer your initial question.)
You’re missing the point. You don’t need the ZSphere mesh to be rigged and posed or animated. You need the ZBrush mesh to be rigged and posed or animated. ZBrush can do what you want. You just need to use the right tool for the job. And that tool is retopology.
OK, I get it now. So conclusion, ZSpheres are great and powerful way to start creation of base mesh and shape, but after I sculpt my mesh and add subdivision levels and details I need to retopology my mesh so that I can get quality ZBRUSH mesh which will be usefull for posing or animating in other apps. Am I right now ?
Yep. 
You can create your animation-friendly mesh at any time, actually. But it’s best to save that step for toward the end because once you’ve finalized your mesh you’ve also restricted what you can do creatively. There’s less room to experiment.
Ok, so (RE) TOPOLOGY comes on the end of modeling/subdividing/detailing. I understand. At least, I decided to buy ZBRUSH 3 because I tried trial and he looks really friendly to me in the way the mesh reacts on deformation.That gives me an idea of how would that same mesh react when it’s rigged and animted.
Just as a simple basic example:
- Open up the Monster Manual, for instance, and pick something you’d like to see in 3D.
- In either Zbrush or the basic modelling program you’re already good at, arrange primitives in the basic shape of the thing.
- Export if you’re in another program, and import that into ZB
- Subdivide it until it looks nice ans smooth.
- Sculpt the mess into the exact shape of the thing
- Retopologise the result to use a mesh that’s actually reasonable. including adding mesh resolution for detail and joint areas, keeping it low for smooth and unjointed areas, and so on.
- Export, regroup, UVMap, add materials
- Back in Zbrush, texture
- Rig for Poser and sell on Turbosquid where they don’t care if you went straight from the Monster Manual – or stick to things Gygax didn’t invent and sell at DAZ.
- At end of month, collect sales, buy beer.
Retopologising therefore gets you beer in mere hours*.
- With a month wait on the cheque, of course…
What more could you ask?
Hahaha! That is some hilarious truth there, Dodger. But, what if we don’t like beer? :lol: ~ clicks on the tequila option ~
I’m getting to the point where I’m actually liking my recent topologies. The slightly higher mesh density in jointed areas, facial features, ears, certain muscle groups, etc., are a great point. While keeping parts that arent to be bent or deformed, at a relatively low level. This can be a tad tricky at first. I think the main challenge and probably most important, is in organizing where and how your loops will intersect. Like I said, and if you haven’t already, take a look at some of the sites that talk about topology. Most of them are not Zbrush specific, but many of them illustrate quite well, what makes for good topology as well as examples of bad topology.
Good luck, and Happy retopologising!
if I’m going to render my model in maya, do I have to use retopology in zbrush? is there any other way to create uv’s for my model?
I don’t want to hijack the thread, but I’m not sure I should create a new one.
I’m a lowly newb to modeling but I’ve been messing with Zbrush for a year. Lately I’ve been mostly just trying to learn the basics of creating usable meshes for games or animation.
I’ve messed with the topology tools and I plan to read more about the issue. My problem is that I’m not sure exactly how to make my topology better, what to look for, what to change. For example I’m sculpting a basic head, not going for perfect anatomy, just trying to work on general forms. I’ve run into an issue where certain areas (like around the ears) have stretched out topology where I moved polygons in an effort to make the ear come out of the head.
I’ve seen some topology of human faces done by people who know what they’re doing, but I don’t know where to start or what to look for.
Basically I’m just asking in here to see if anyone knows of any online tutorials or books that I can use to learn the details about topology in general.
I’ve never gotten beer form retopologizing. I guess I have been deprived!
Some things like fingers and toes, are easier to model the cage mesh in another program. However you can transfer details and forms to a similar sized mesh.
Without going into a long discourse on topology (there’s a few threads around if you search for them), I’ll give you a few pointers.
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You want as many of your polygons as possible to be four sided, as this is the most natural form for the subdivision algorithm which will allow you increase detail. (In many of my models I usually have no more than a dozen triangles.) Do not use higher number of sides except for holes, as these will be broken down into quads and triangles anyhow and the automation is not always as smart as you will be.
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Try to be fairly even about the size of your quads where you need detail. This will make your brushes work smoother. Try to be gradual if you’re moving from high levels of detail to lower–this will avoid things that might generate seams.
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As you create ribbons or strips of quads, try to flow their edges along the natural surface or contour of your sculpture. You’ll hear people talk about good polygon “flow”–this means that the quads tend to follow he natural surface.
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If you’re modeling for animation, you want the quads to loop around key mobile areas such as the eyes and mouth, similar to how the underlying muscles flow around the eyes and mouth. This will allow these areas to deform more easily as eyes & mouth open and close. I personally model around the eyes and mouth first on heads and then join up the rest of the polygon flow of the face as I go. Loops of polygons around ears can be helpful.
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Unlike in SDS modeling (metanurbs, hypernurbs) you should not overdo the number of polygons in the base mesh (e.g. Level 1). ZB will let you easily deform things, so in general, just try to get enough geometry to get you started and start dividing and sculpting the model. Use the “move” brush to pull things around at Level 2 & 3 if needed to even out things.
If you’re really confused, Ryan K. has a good tutorial video on sculpting a human head on Gnomonology (Gnomon Workshop) for sale. It’s definitely worth a purchasing as he has a very nice workflow for sculptors.
-K
Wow Thank you very much for taking the time to write all that out! I’ve been watching Jason Welsh’s (cannedmushrooms) videos so I get what you’re saying. I’ll check out Ryan K’s videos too!
I really appreciate the tips! 
No problem. As you practice sculpting it will soon become second-nature since at a fundamental level the “flow” of your polygons is going to be the flow of your sculpted surface. At lower levels of sculpting, I sometimes turn polyframe on to use these flow lines as visual guides to the subtle undulations of the human form (especially the curve of the eye orbit and cheekbone when in profile.)
Another I learned from watching RyanK work in his vids–keep turning your model and viewing it from multiple angles. With classical sculpting in clay it was somewhat easier since you just moved your head, almost instinctively. Since the computer model is being render on a flat LCD panel, you need to keep moving the model around in virtual space so that you can keep tabs on what’s happening to shape of the virtual three-space that makes up your model.
-K