Hello,
Like many new users, I am blown away by the potential of this product.
Just wondering if Zbrush is a practical tool for developing models for sale on various 3d sites?
Can you typically do the entire process in Zbrush?
Or do you need to GoZ the model to its native app and do more work there?
Or is it enough to GoZ the model to its app, save it in the native format, and call it done?
Thanks
I thought about trying something similiar, beleiving that as long as you export as .obj, it shouldn’t matter what tool you use to build your 3D Models.
Of course, I also like the saying, “Never take advice from anybody online. They’re all a bunch of mollusks and tweaked out hooligans.”
Ravioli,
Thanks for weighing in. When you say “Zbrush’s strength is in high frequency Sculpting. Not so much in lower res modeling and UV mapping…”
(I have been studying Cinema 4D. It would appear to me at first glance that the ZBrush process (with Spotlight) is faster for the above. I don’t have any other apps to compare so…)
What applications do you consider superior to Zbrush for low res modeling and UV mapping?
Well, I think if you want to sell your files, you’ll need to cater towards clients that might want to tweak the textures for their project, using 2D software like Photoshop, which means you’ll need UVs that efficiently use the entire UV space and are easy to read (which eliminates the use of AUVs, GUVs, and PUVs, within ZBrush, and even UVMaster, which always leaves a bunch of unused UV space).
As far as applying the textures, Spotlight is great for an initial color pass or broad detail work using polypaint, but if your UVs aren’t laid out effectively . . . forget about any kind of percision or crisp detail.
Bodypaint still seems to be the most widely used 3D texturing program in the games industry. That and Photoshop, of course.
For UVLayout, there’s Headus UVLayout. Modo has great UV mapping. Even Blender has respectable UV tools. I think any complete 3D suite (including Cinema 4D) has the necessary tools for professional grade UVmapping (placing the seams and texture islands exactly where you want them).
Again, this is regarding selling 3d model files with textures.
Realistically, the dominant programs in 3D graphics is Autodesk 3d studio max and Maya. If you cater to those users, you’ll have a better shot a making a little money.
But if you invest those kind of beans in software, it’ll probably take quite a while before the models you’re selling earn back the initial capital.
One cool exception being the Team Fortress 2 Manconomy Polycount items. Appearently in only 3 weeks, three to five models (weapons and hats for the ingame characters) earned the creators an average of $45,000, according to Valve. That after they only spent five weeks building the model sets for the contest. And that $45,000 is only a 25% royalty check. The items sold better than the actual game during that period. Crazy.
But that was Valve. And a Megapopular online game. And in a heavily regulated sales environment (only five packs of models for sale, as opposed to the thousands on Turbosquid).
I’ll shut up now, just by answering that Cinema 4D will work for building your base mesh, and laying professional quality UV maps. Then Zbrush for the details. Photoshop or Bodypaint to polish the textures. Then upload to the online stores and hopefully make some cheese.
And if you end up making $45,000 in three weeks, please tell me how you did it. :lol:
Fascinating info, thank you. I am too new to even know where the sweet spot in the market is. You seem to be focused on gaming - what about the zillions of assorted Poser model clothes and misc nick knacks I see on various 3D selling sites? Is that profitable? Do-able with ZBrush?
Just looking at the Zbrush training videos, I had gained the impression that quick and accurate meshes and UV maps were possible, and way faster than C4D. Are you saying that they might be ok for certain types of models but not gaming?
As a newbie, I would have guessed that I might try to start and complete most of my model in ZBrush, and then maybe finish up (hair, bones or whatever) in C4D, and then pose the model with the C4D studio environment.
This whole subject of selling models, and what exactly makes a high quality model is something I would like to learn a lot more about. Do you know of any good resources or forums on the web specifically for selling, marketing etc for 3d models?
I guess I have a lot to learn. Well, thanks again for helping me along!
I think Poser is profitable for DAZ. All those micro purchases have kept them in business for a long time. But, like you said, they offer a huge amount of models for sale. Easy to get lost in shuffle if you’re a single seller. Same thing with Turbo Squid and any other online model broker. They use individuals to rapidly increase their stock, but, in the process, choke off the revenue of individual users by offering too many models of similiar objects and quality.
Zbrush is great for hi rez detail. But the file sizes are so massive, that they become unworkable outside of zbrush. Definately no good for game engines. At a very minimum, the UV mapping must be done outside of ZBrush. Much more effective retopo tools are found in all the major packages (3D Studio, Maya, Modo, XSI, Blender). More mature texturing tools are found in Bodypaint, Mudbox, 3DCoat, and Photoshop. ZBrush can stand on its own for illustration and 3D Prints, but needs help when polycount and edgeflow become a concern.
I think Cineme 4D will serve you well for the base model, UV mapping, rigging and rendering. You should be able to get professional level work out of it and sell it on the sites you choose. Check out the forums on CGtalk, Polycount, 3DTotal, and Gameartisans.org. You’ll find the best independent and professional 3D models in the world there. Use the galleries to gauge where you’re at, and where you need to get.
Other than that, I don’t think there are any good road maps for selling 3D models. Just keep you’re eyes open for opportunities posted on sites like Polycount, and Gameartisans.org (like the Valve Team Fortress 2 Manconomy), and make your objects accordingly.
And Good Luck.
One last question. Can you not export your model from zbrush at basically any resolution? Also isn’t the Decimation Master plugin there to allow this?
Thank you again - I will bookmark your reply and check out all these resources!
Export at any res is possible, but, obviously, the bigger the polycount, the bigger the file, the slower everything gets. Decimation master turns everything into tris, making the model pretty much useless if you want to make detailed adjustments (but fine if you’re just rendering or sending it out to be printed). Models offered for sale might be more valuable if the customer can modify it to suit their project, in which case, the model needs to be all quads, and all the hi frequency ZBrush detail is applied as normal, displacement, or bump maps.
I think Pixologic is exaggerating a bit if they say it all can be done in ZBrush. I suppose, technically, it can (except for quality UVs and rigging). But the amount of effort necessary to get it working at low, mid and high res, probably isn’t worth it in the long run. The dedicated 3D packages like 3D Studio Max and Maya and Cinema4D will always be preferrable, even necessary, I bet.
But, yeah. Everyone has their way of doing things. Maybe you can develop a workflow which is actually faster than jumping back and forth between progs. Don’t let anyone discourage you from your goal.
Anyway, have fun and good luck.
I think Pixologic is exaggerating a bit if they say it all can be done in ZBrush. I suppose, technically, it can (except for quality UVs and rigging)
The rigging part, I get… but, What’s wrong with UV-Master?
Nothing wrong, exactly. It’s fine for quick UVs on single objects. But, if you’re making textures for games, or UVs somebody else will be working on, you need to use as much of the UV space as possible. UV master UVs leave behind a ton of white space (even though it’s supposed to optimize UV space). Also, you can’t extend the space beyond 0,1, so no multiple UVs. But, if you only need UVs for illustration or printing purposes, they’re fine. Just not geeky enough for game ready graphics, yet, which is probably why they include the option to Use Existing UVs made in other programs.