ZBrushCentral

Normal Map looks ****ty in Maya

Hey there…

I modeled a low poly character in Maya, exported it to ZBrush, made subdivisions and sculpted a high detail character.
I took the UVs from Automatic UV in Maya.
Now I created a normal map with ZMapper and used the Maya Tangent Space Preset. I saved the normal map (2048x2048) as bmp, loaded the subdiv 1 OBJ in Maya and added the normap map bitmap as a bump map file on a phong Material in Maya.

Here’s what it should look like:

http://fux-media.com/3d/cydonia/good.png

And here’s what it looks like:

http://fux-media.com/3d/cydonia/bad-ugly.png

In the ZMapper, the normal map looked just brilliant… do you have any idea, what I’m doing wrong?

Cheers,
Ephialtes

You are using a normal map as a bump map, just tell maya that you want to use it as a tangent space normal map instead of a bump map (I think it’s in the bump2d node (Use as))

That sounded really promising…

but I tried it and it still looks the same… like it’s a piece of clay that got beaten up by a bunch of lunatics or something … ^^

Maybe I did something wrong way before?

The thing is: The graphic information on the map is ath the right positions. And in a kind, the deformations are correct, only that they seem extremely awkward… Any ideas?

I cant look at your images (though i can imagine the result), could you upload them into zbrush central so i can take a look at it…?

Other thing: Maya feels yucky with normal maps, if you have mental ray, render with mental instead. :lol:

Okay, here they are:

Hope this worked…

Attachments

good.jpg

bad-ugly.jpg

Have you tried smoothing the edges of your mesh??

(select object, Shift+RMB ->Menu, soften edges)

And you could also give the bump a value of 0.3

To quote Jack Bauer: Dammit!

You just saved my day!

It was the smoothing edges. Now everything looks as it should! Thank you!

I guess it looks a lot better in ZBrush, because there is much better 3-point-lighting, right?

Does anyone have a good hint what kind of shader to use for skin in Maya?

Attachments

thatstheway.jpg

nope… it’s because in zbrush the edges of the geometry are never smooth, but when you have MILLIONS of polys they seem to be smooth.

In zmapper, the edges are automatically smoothed, but not in maya.

Btw, I think you should have a little more polygons in your base mesh, maybe at sub-d level 2 from zbrush.

If you have Mental Ray, you should use a miss_fast_skin shader, if you don’t… well, you can do really great skin out of a blinn or a phong, with good textures, obviously :stuck_out_tongue:

I’ve tried it with subd-2 and yes, it already looks a lot better. But I intend to create a game character / game characters and the Poly Count is already at more than 5000 without shoes and head…

I don’t know, at the moment it seems okay to me, but I’m a bit afraid of producing too much polygons… I also couldn’t find any really useful information about how many polygons to use on a game character. Sure, the Main character deserves a bit more than others, but well…

I try to have about 5000-7500 polygons per character. Do you have an idea on how many polygons (round about) are used for characters on next-gen consoles in games like, lets say Gears of War oder Call of Duty 5?

Cheers

Then, I think your base mesh is not properly planned. In the gaming environment (as far asi i’ve read) , there should be 2 meshes: One triangulated, and one quad-ed, no need for the first be a mod of the second.

The rule of thumb is “Make the silouethe look good, otherwise, no quantity of maps will bring life to your character”

This mesh has only 800 triangles, but the silouethe and the normal maps make it appear as a higher res mesh.

[Killy1.jpg]

Gears of war - Main character : marcus fenix, around 7,500 poly, dominic santiago, around 6,000 poly, a locust: 5,000 poly… I’m not sure about those polycounts, but I think I’ve read them somewhere…

The easiest thing you can do is:

1.- Sculpt, not worrying about anything.

2.- Retopo your sculpt (you can do it in zbrush)

3.- UV unwrap your model, should do it in maya, 3ds max, blender, xsi… NO automatic mapping :lol:

4.- Export a hires and a lowres model, and project the hires into the lowres maya can do it (but not with a million polys), max too (around 3 mill. poly), or you can use xNormal (no poly limit)

How it is done (As far as I’ve read):

1.- Create a quad and a triangle mesh in maya or max, the triangle mesh should represent the main silouethe with the lowest possible polycount, while the quad mesh should make the same regardless the polycount.
Uv-unwrap the triangle mesh

2.- Sculpt, polypaint, export hi-res mesh and texture > Diffuse map

3.- Project the hires mesh onto the low res mesh > normal map

4.- Texture details in photoshop (that’s why you shouldn’t Auto uv)

Okay, just for the protocol: I do not intend to use Automatic Mapping for my final model :lol:

I mostly use “Pelting Tools” when it comes to UV-Mapping creatures and homanoids. Any other (better) suggestions?

But for the quad/tris thing, just to summarize if I got the message:

  • I create a lowest poly possible model from Tris (because in the game engine, it’s tri’s anyway, so I have full control over the “real” polycount.
  • Then I create the SAME model again, with quads and no limitation in polycount. I then use this new model to sculpt a high res mesh in ZBrush.

Q: Why don’t I import the triangular mesh in ZBrush, Subdivide it a few times and start to sculpt from that? Wouldn’t that save a lot of redundant work? Or what is the big advantage from sculpting from a quad model?

make a triangulated mesh and try to sculpt it in zbrush :lol:

Hehe! Trial-and-error… Just tried it and saw what could not be told in a few words… at sud-7 to subd-8 … it looks… let’s say “okay”. But what happens in lower subd levels is just awful ^^

Okay, then I got the point why to make tris AND quads… makes sense.

But one thing still concers me, technically… how do I make the UV-Map of the two different models “identically”… I UV-unwrap the low-poly model, but calculate the normal and diffuse map from the High poly map that derives from the Quad Mesh? How do I make them fit together?

Sorry for asking so many questions ^^, when I’m a bit more into it, I will support the next-generation with everything I can :wink:

@ISK-86: by the way: Very impressive Deviant profile. I added you to my watch list. But my profile is still empty since a few months…