Nagging workflow and sequence of sculpting

[Lusankya]

I’ve been experimenting with ZBrush for awhile and have seen some of the videos… however I still have a few nagging questions that I need written in cryaon to understand… or maybe just a better way of explaining them

1. At what point should I insert eyes so that I can correctly sculpt the lids and corners and flesh around the eye correctly? A specific subdivision lvl? Once insterted will I be able to sculpt around them for a “close fit” with the lids and lower portion of the eye? Possible to combine them into 1 model mesh?

2. What is the best way to position and place multiple objects. Such as I am working on a humanoid model right now that I plan to have reclining on a rock with alot of wrinkled cloth covering her lower body with parts of her legs sticking out. Currently I am working on a T pose human with low detail lower body as most of it will end up covered with the cloth. But determining when and how to sculpt clothing is throwwing me.

   Do I model the naked form first then try to put clothes on it? or do I try to account for the clothing it will be wearing and try to include enough geometry in the zsphere model. (Picture a partially open kimono exposing the sternum and the inner sides of the breast.) Do I attempt to model the top part of the kimono and the torso together as 1 peice? How would I accomidate the negative space between the cloth and the chest?

   If I model naked then add the clothing later… how do you make hollow sleeves in zbrush that will be “scrunchable” to accomidate for folds if I want to repose the model?

3. I’ve been trying to figure out marker master to place objects but I am unable to flip back and forth between layers and still be able to repose and sculpt the model. I want ot position the rock then pose the model on top of it. Do I do all the sculpting of the humanoid first then attempt to pose it using the zspheres or is it better to model it in the desired pose already?

4. Is it better to try to sculpt and detail each part of the model all together and then up the division or can i work on the hands at lvl 3 and concentrate on them all the way up to lvl 6 and get them exactly how I want them… then safely drop down to lvl 3 again and work on the face. at what point should I try posing the model to determine how to tweek the sculpt to accomidate the desired pose?

Any help would be greatly appreciated…
A short video script tutorial would be outstanding especially for #3

Mostly I want to know what I need to do when in what order is best.
Is it best to start with a T pose model, then pose it, or start it as a pose and sculpt from there? (not animated model)

[clever_guy]

Hi;

Good basic questions. I decided to do another 3-D still with Z-brush 2 after a year or so - so I am back relearning everything again…arrggg…

I am thinking through the same type of workflow issues. I am planning out a 3-D human figure in a loose garment like a robe - and I am trying to figure out the most feasible way to do this without turning a 30 hour project into 300. I am leaning towards creating a z-sphere figure and posing it before skinning, then integrating a few seperate 3-D cloth pieces into the mesh here and there to get the look right. Eventually I am going to try importing the final model into Lightwave 8 for the final render.

I have tried modeling a figure in loose clothes in Z-Brush 2 before and I haven’t had a lot of luck. Despite all the great tutorials on Z-Brush central, creating a fairly complex 3-D model with a fair amount of detail is a pretty daunting task. Trying to figure out workflow/pipeline is difficult when you are half guessing how it all works.

I look forward to hearing any advice from more experienced ZBrush users to your thread.

-CG

[tez]

Personaly I would find it more time consuming trying to do everything in zbrush alone. I know a fair few people that use zbrush and non of them use it by it self. My self I use a few applications.

I either make the base mesh in Zbrush then tweak it in hexagon 2 ,or I make the complete base mesh in Hexagon 2. I always make the character in a T pose no clothes no hair. Il extract clothes from the base mesh and make these seperate meshes. All UV mapping is done in hexagon.

Zbrush comes into use when I want to add detail for the use of Displacment, Normal, and bump maps. Id also use Zbrush with photoshop for texturing.

When My clothes are made id drop them into Poser 7 and apply cloth physics againts the body of my character, this creates a nice natural drape. With this modified cloth id then take it into zbrush for final detailing and texturing.

All parts end up in Lightwave where id place each part together and setup for a final render.

Zbrush 3 will change alot of this as I can do alot more within just this one app. Basicly I use what works the best for me and what produces the best results in less time, Zbrush 2 cant do all of that for me.

I started off with just Zbrush and gave in to the fact that other applications will have to come into play. There are workarounds in zbrush and have seen some do all of it in just zbrush. For me it was just as easy to learn another app that does a better and faster job. Iv been through all these clitches in zbrush and found it so much easyer to just drop all my parts in another application and place the parts together in real 3d.

[Lusankya]

Most of my issues mainly appear to be timeline/workflow related.

I’m all for modeling in a T pose since it makes it easier for symetry.
But since I’m using adaptive preview… at what point do I add eyes?
I’m using zspheres to make the character so she currently has holes via recessed zspheres for eyes. at what point do I add eyes so I can correctly sculpt the area around them? Will markers work in a situation like this before the final adaptive mesh is applied, or must the mesh be finalized first? If finalized first… how would I be able to repose the char if the zspheres aren’t avalible anymore.

I’d basicly like to know the best beginning for a still model…
Use zspheres for the model and pose it then sculpt or sculpt first then pose and resculpt? If you add clothing after the sculpt do you even bother to be very precise with the parts of the body that will be covered?

Need some basic workflow advice for the best ways to go about setting up the sculpt.
Tips and tricks that have been found to make setting up for a 3d still easier and more effecient.

[tez]

Using Pose to pose method is currently the only method in which you can re-pose your model while working in symetry.

If you dont know how to use the P2P method here it is.

1. Make your zsphear complete.

2. Press (A) to preview the mesh and setup the Adaptive settings so you have a clean mesh as posible.

3. Press Store in the morph Target pannel found in the tools menu.

4. set the max Density level in the adaptive pannel and (Do not take it back down after you start deforming your mesh) Use Shft+D and D to go up and down sub D levels.

5. Start to sculpt your mesh in symetry. You can not add no more zsphears at this point.

6. Press A to repose your zsphear after you have fully sculpted basic form.

Once you are happy with basic form then you can make your adaptive skin all sub D levels will remain when you draw out your new mesh from the tools. Your now have no symetry but your have most of your form complete.

Then before going to far with your detail use marker master plugin to place the eye balls into the eye sockets. Once a new mesh has been made with eyes in place I would then Ctrl+shft sellect the eyes and mask all. Bring back the rest of the mesh and move and sculpt the eye sockets over the masked eye balls.

In the end I just sculpted the eyes with the geomatry made from edge loops without adding any eye balls, this way I could spend more time adding detail to my mesh before using pose to pose.

All the obove is only good for making still images in zbrush mind you.

[Lusankya]

Well I got it all done up to point 6…

So you are saying to pose the model then add eyes then sculpt it?
So zsphere… then pose then sculpt a little, detremin final poze… then marker in the eyes and remake the mesh so its combined… then resume sculpting. This will effectivly stop me from reposing the model later correct?

With store morph target… am I storing the low poly adaptive skin mesh or the zsphere version? I noticed lastnight when I deleted a morph target in the adaptive preview there was still 1 stored in the zsphere version.

When you combine 2 seperate objects such as a model and a rock… they dont need to be touching right? I could have 2 seperate but editable objects together as long as they are grouped?

Refering to this persons model and setup… its obvious he did them seperatly but the precise looking placing of the model after the sculpt… according to the video’s I’ve seen… sinc ethis isnt a true 3d program its a bit complicated to get then to match up if the zsphere version is inavalible.

What would be the procedure for modeling them together? do you guesstamate the pose and then adjust the rock to fit? or is it possible to have the rock and the zsphere model on at the same time… get the model posed correctly then go into sculpting accordingly to the way the body interacts with the rock?

[tez]

Some stills that you see are not infact a 3d modle made from many parts but rather a 2.5D scene of carfully placed parts.

The pose to pose method is far from full proof but was/is the only way at current to pose your mesh within zbrush.

The problems are that you cant pose your Zsphear then sculpt in full symetry and that you cant add more zsphears. Also once you have made your adaptive skin mesh there are no posing abilities left and no symetry. Asuming you want to keep a low poly version of your final model, your have to add the eyes at a low poly version of your base mesh, so when you have made your new mesh after using multi markers it remains at a low poly level. From there you can start sub deviding your mesh and adding detail in a non symetry way. I no longer use this method as placing parts is too time consuming and fiddly so I started to look at other methods to achive the results i.e use Poser to rig and pose and apply a displacment map to it and render, or rig the base mesh in poser and import it back posed, this way I keep all my sub devided detail in zbrush as a zb model but its fully posed.

[tez]

Here I just did a ultra fast one, took me 20min for all of it. The bad thing about using poser is the time it takes to rig it well but the good thing is once you have done this you can pose it as many times as you like while keeping all your sub devisions in zbrush, the imported pose updates them all. I know it looks silly as a exsample but thats all I had time for, but it shows how many steps I had to make. The riging part was very simple.

[Jason_Belec]

Lusankya, have you seen our Eternal Zsphere thread? Quite a few wonderful approaches exist, see the link in my signature. We all would happily help you out on the thread. It is for people getting started and wondering what can really be done with zspheres.

[Lusankya]

Yea been reading that and re-reading the FAQ’s to solve my issue… they give you the hows… but not necessairly the why’s and whens that I’m lookin for.

They are helpful though