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My Head is gonna @#$%@#$ explode!!

ZBrush Usage Questions
#1

Ok I’ve had programs crash on me, sure it sucks but we all get over it.
We get over the lost work too, well, we have to.

But this is a whole different thing alltogether!!
I’ve been working on a model in zbrush for a few days now, multiple subtools, 25mil total polys, 5 mil on the subtool I’m working on and everthing else set to the lowest subd level, it’s all fairly smooth so far. But today I tried to import an alpha, one I had imported and used before BTW, and zbrush locked up my computer, after about 30 secs, it seems to have recovered but gave me an unable to import file error.

And I go to check the file, guess what I find (or not find), my 2nd harddrive which all my work resides on has disappeared! (That’s what that sound was!! the same sound you get when a usb device is disconnected)
So I save what I have opened in zb to another drive and restart.

Sure enough the HD is back and all the files are fine, but the saved file from after the disconnect is un-openable, it just says not enough memory and crashes zbrush.

I was able to replicate this behavior too!

Has anyone else had this problem???

p.s: I’m using zbrush 3.1 on a AMD athlon am2 4000 computer with 4g of ddrii 800 hmz ram running windows xp 32bit
And I saved using the Svengali quicksave plugin.
I had been using this plugin’s Incremental tool save feature for a few days without problem.
But all the files I saved using it today, before and after the HD disconnect, are un-openable.

p.p.s WHAT THE FCKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK

#2

Let me start by saying this post gives me the creeps. Ever since I wrote the first version of QuickSave I’ve feared that someone would start losing work using my plugin. After several years, yours is the first report I’ve had of that happening and if it is the fault of QuickSave, I apologize.

One thing I don’t do in the most recent QuickSave script is check whether any of the subtools have hidden polygons. I’ve considered releasing a new version which would automatically un-hide ALL hidden polygons before each save as I’ve seen it reported that saving models with hidden polys can cause reloading problems. I know that in Save ZTool (companion button in the SubTool Master Plugin) marcus_civis warns you if you are about to save a model containing hidden polygons, a good feature I’ve discussed with him. I’ve also had it confirmed by Pixologic that the ZBrush3.1 save-tool operation itself, automatically reduces the model subtools to lowest subD levels before saving (as it should). I DON’T think it automatically checks for hidden polygons but perhaps it should.

So. First thing I’d suggest to you is: BEFORE SAVING, ALWAYS UN-HIDE ALL POLYS IN ANY MODEL, WITH OR WITHOUT SUBTOOLS, WHETHER YOU CONTINUE TO USE QUICKSAVE OR NOT.

Second thing I’d say at this point is: you should stop using QuickSave all together until you get this problem sorted out.

Third… I’d appreciate it if you could provide any additional details about the model you were working on and the sequence of events that led to the loss: How many subtools? Any hidden? How many, if any, polygons hidden? What naming convention were you using? Had you previously saved the model and then successfully reloaded it during subsequent work session(s)?

Finally, did you ever solve what caused the USB disconnect sound? Have you been able to reproduce that event? Any conclusions as to the cause?

Personally, I too have suffered fatal lockups when trying to load custom alphas (large and small) after working for a while with a large model (however never as large as yours) resulting in lost work. This, following long freeze/pauses where virtual memory files were being swapped.

I’m confident that QuickSave was NOT at issue in those cases.

So, thanks for any feedback, Sven

#3

Hi there!

I apologize if I said anything offensive or inappropriate in the heat of the moment. I have a bit of an anger issue :stuck_out_tongue:

I did a bunch of testing after my venting,
and it seems the problem was occuring when I try to access the file with other applications as well.
So, yeah I think we can rule out that Quick Save is a factor.
And the fact that I used it for a while before this with absolutely no problems should prove that too.

The USB disconnect sound is 1 of my harddrives being disconnected,this happens when I tried to open a PSD, first few times through zbrush, then later with ACDSEE.
the sound comes following a long freeze and right after that harddrive is just gone. A reboot fixes it though.

I think I may have a hardware issue on my hand.

Again I apologize for jumping to conclusions and thank you for your advice, I’ll remember to unhide.

#4

argh, this is fcking PISSING ME OFF !!!
Another 2 hours of work, GONE!!
This time I unhid every part of every subtool before I saved, and I saved multiple copies with the Model save button AND the M+ increment button,
all of the saves are CORRUPT.
When I try to open one, it immediately tells me not enough memory and crashes zbrush.
I can still open the original file though.

I think this might be related to the layers on my subtool.
The latest file that can be opened properly has 4 layers on 1 subtool, all the other subtools have no layers.

I added a 5th layer and then did some work on it and saved, and all of the saves that have this 5th layer won’t open.
I’ll do some more testing and try to isolate the problem.

#5

I recommend using SubTool Master: http://www.zbrushcentral.com/zbc/showthread.php?t=057154

Also, what is your Preferences>Mem>Compact Mem setting at?

#6

saving to USB drives have nailed me LOTS of times.
Same issue with the memory thing.
I have learned that saving to the harddrive is the best thing. Then clean house after a day or two of work.

LOL and boy if you have ever run out of space on a USB drive in mid save Zbrush throws a fit like a 2 yr old brat.

WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH OMG YOUR OUT OF SPACE!!! (THEN A THUMP NOISE) of your USB drive disconnecting and zbrush crashing right out of memory. your tool is usually toast.

Another thing try and keep alphas out of the alpha menu that are active. Zbrush will ask to save it with the tool, If you do not answer this by acident your tool is toast.

Better get some butter my friend cause it is awesome with Zbrush toast making features.

xp64bit
am2
4gigs ram
2 tbs of hardrive space
8800 nvidia

#7

@aurick
Thanks, I will try it.

I have it set to 2048 12 for undo and redo
I have 4g ram total on a 32bit system so I guess it only really uses 3.5G.

Actually I’m using a regular SATA harddrive, that’s what makes it so weird to me. I didn’t know any programs could cause a SATA HDD to get disconnected like that. Or maybe my HDD has some physical errors on it that’s causing it, I don’t know.
I have limited space but I keep 10g on whatever drive I have my working files on.

#8

Silent,

I really only have two things I can say right now concerning your SAVE problems:

  1. Please DON’T use QuickSave anymore - especially in light of your second round of problems. It’s just not worth the grief.

  2. Please DO use SubTool Master as Aurick suggests. Pixologic has thoroughly tested the Save button featured there and I’m confident that will solve all your problems.

Thanks, Sven

#9

thank you guys for your help, esp Svengali, I really do appreciate it.

But alas my problem persists.
I’m just working on 1 subtool of 5 mi polys now and I’m using the subtool master’s save button, but it still crashes zbrush upon save.

The symptoms is as follows:
I’m sculpting on lvl 5 with 1.2 mil polygons (nothing hidden) on layer 5.
I have 3g of ram available. After about half an hour of sculpting I try to move up to subd lvl 6 and after a few seconds I get the out of memory warning, but zbrush switched to lvl 6 anyways.
Now from previous experience I know once I get this warning and try to save, it will crash zbrush.
But I thought subtool master might help, so I used its save button,
it tried to save but gave me an “error encountered while saving” message,
right after I click OK, zbrush crashes.

What’s my problem? Maybe I just need more physical memory?
What can I do after working for a while and getting the out of mem message? It always crashed soon after this message for me, would compact mem at this point help to prevent the crash?

#10

What are your Preferences>Mem settings?

Since you have a 32-bit version of Windows, CompactMem must be set no higher than 2048. Windows will not give all of your 4 GB of RAM to ZBrush. 32-bit versions of Windows only support 2 GB per application. Setting CompactMem higher than 2048 will prevent ZBrush from using compact memory, and create all kinds of problems. Similarly, if CompactMem is set to the default of 256 then ZBrush is only using 256MB of your RAM.

Also, leave the Undo settings at their default of 4. If you’ve set them higher, you’re handicapping ZBrush’s performance.

(Note, there is a “/3GB Switch” that can be used to force Windows to give up to 3 GB of RAM to an application. Use it at your own risk. It is not supported by Microsoft, which means that they know it’s problematic and will not work for all users.)

#11

I had it set to 3000 for a while but I read about the 2g limit and I set it back to 2048 a few days ago. I assumed that it stayed at 2048 but it seems like it didn’t get saved and when I checked today it was still 3000, so that may have been responsible for the crashes.

I’ll set the undo and redos back to 4 as well, I had them on 12.

Thanks for tips, I’ll test it some more but I’m confident things will improve. (or I hope) Could you point me towards the 3g switch? I figure it can’t hurt to try. If that doesn’t work then I may try a 64bit system, that should allow more mem to a single application right?

EDIT trying it with the /3gb switch now, giving zbrush 2750mb of 3200 available memory.