ZBrushCentral

Great Drawing skills - How important?

Community
#1

Hey everyone, I wanted to quickly post a question that I’m sure has been asked many a time by aspiring character/environment artists. I wanted to ask how important having good drawing skills are for character concepting and development? I understand that for concepting they are vital, but I’m not that good a 2d artist. Its not that I’m lazy or don’t want to learn how to draw, I just have a passion for the 3d side of it - modeling in Maya or sculpting in Zbrush. I feel I have a basic grasp of anatomy in terms of sculpting, but I can always learn something new. My point is that I want to come up with my own ideas and concepts, but I’m not very good at drawing at all and would rather concept in Zbrush.

A few people recommended life drawing classes which I would be willing to try, a few others mentioned that they ‘block out’ a quick model in a 3D app and then paint over it in Photoshop to get a rough concept, as long as the silouette and features looks good. My old tutor also did some great character work but couldn’t draw to save his life.

The last question is how to come up with some crazy concepts, where your inspiration comes from, etc. Would like to hear of your views on this, thanks in advance. :slight_smile:

#2

This might be a bit more than you are asking but…
(bear with me, it wanders but Ive been wanting to say this)

Im not great by any stretch but certainly I think all fundamentals help.
Many if not most of the best cg artists are already very good hand artists.
Drawing, painting and what not. I think much of it has to do with perception
of forms, shapes, shadow and light which often comes from a great deal of
experience or those born with a gift. Less about the technical know how in
terms of being able to make something amazing
(like some of the basta…, I mean users on this board:D )

The good of Z is how powerful, flexible and accesible it is. Its is easy
to look through the forum, grab the mouse or stylus and quickly become
dismayed though. Its not the tool but the user. I think that is where people
become bitter or angry with the software or the boards.
You see this amazing work, most done very quickly.
Its exciting and energetic, then possibly disappointing.

None of this is to say Z could not be the start rather than the end or
that you must learn to draw and paint. I would rather use Z than anything.
I do find I still need to thumbnail things or outright paint something in
photoshop before I get to Z.

Try out the book “Drawing on the right side of the brain” most of it is about
forcing you to see and percieve things in a different way. It would be great
to draw night and day, I would say it would not hurt but its unrealistic for
most of us. Doodling when you can is a plus.

Certainly keep going no matter what. Someone once said everyone has
10,000 bad drawings in them might as well get them out. I think the
same might go for 3d. Heck who says you cant do it in reverse, 3d then 2d?
Zbrush has made cg art a whole new game.

If you cannot percieve a thing, be aware of it, how can you make it?
hmmm… I think I just pwned myself…

Good luck,
-d

#3

Being a good 2d artist certainly helps to be a great 3d one. with concepts sketches, sometimes a less detailed and realistic concept is actually easier to work with when it’s time for the sculpting. for a “crazy concept” try coming up with something simple in a sketch, as a loose guide for the 3d model. In Goldo_O’s Kentor creature the final sculpt looked very little like his sketch, but it won the critters and creatures contest from CGcoach.

#4

Thanks guys I really appreciate the advice :slight_smile: I’ll definitely take these points into account and try and approach future pieces of work with more of a concept in mind before jumping straight in. Great stuff :smiley:

#5

Great drawing skills are essential, but that should not stop you from chasing the dream. Anyone can learn to draw if your willing to put the time in. Ian McCaig (one of the greats) believes that if someone puts in one hour a day, everyday, for six months, they can learn to draw.

Here’s my advice, choose to do with it what you may:

  1. If you can afford it, bite the bullet and go to art school, one that offers courses on industrial design and architecture, as well as fine art. You will be 30 years old by the time your done. Which gives you 35 years to practice your craft. Actually more, given that artist don’t retire.

  2. If you can’t afford school, get yourself a part-time job, just enough to pay the bills (or live at home if it is an option). Spend the next 2-3 years working on your skills and creating a portfolio.

Remember, life is short and there is no point doing a bunch of crap you don’t want to do. If your dream is to be a concept artist, do whatever it takes to get there. Even if it means school, or working a joe job to get by while you teach yourself.

Good luck to you sir.

Matt

#6

To me, ZBrush is basically drawing in 3d, which is easier to say than sculpting in 2d ( ? ) So I think that either learned or natural drawing skills are a must. It goes hand in hand with things such as proportioning, posing, rhythmic lines, yada yada.

In contrast, I think that hard surface 3d modeling leans slightly more towards the mathematical, technical savvy minds. In the end, it’s all visual communication of an idea, and my guess is that most 3d artists could draw if they tried. So my vote is :+1:

#7

I completely agree. Most can be taught the methods of shading and drawing shapes to represent a subject. It’s just like most can be taught to write letters correctly to represent words. Teaching someone to creatively explore is a different discussion though.

#8

Agreed - acquiring drawings skills is no guarantee you will have anything interesting to say. That you either have or do not have.

#9

Funny, I always believed in being able to draw, and would hire artists based as much on that as their 3d skills, because sketches allow ideas to be conveyed quickly.
In the week that I’ve been using zbrush though, I believe I’ve just been converted into thinking otherwise, because with no sketches, no predetermined ideas on paper (or in my head for that matter), I’ve managed to come up with some pretty good looking stuff.

So maybe it’s about feeling love for the (digital) form? :slight_smile:

#10

It could depend on the production team though.

If they got money to spare, they could hire someone with
Great imagination, but couldn’t finish up a decent work
and
Someone who can make stunning work, but is not much of a Creative thinker
to fill in the gap for each other

But Again, There’s no hurt in paying extra to get someone who can do both

As for me, I was taught by my instructors that great skill didn’t mean squat when comparing to great ideas, so they drilled me in the creative process,
As for the skills to create the work, just gotta train myself

When it came to conceptual art, I believe that it’s not important whether it’s on 2Dpaper or in 3D, as long as the forms and idea can be convey to others, it’s a good concept art

#11

Great drawing skills are not only important they are indispensible.

Besides if you practice with ZB enough you will end up with great drawing skills.

#12

@ Philly13:

Only my two cents:

The ability to draw - gifted or skilled by learning, I found that it all depends on how you can memorize what you have seen.
Example: our visual senses receive an overflow of information each and every day. 70 % of our “getting around” is done by eyeballing things around us.
So you pretty soon will get the notion that a lot of things are clear to you, you actually KNOW things.
Then you sit down and triy to sketch up an ear. See?
You have seen tons of ears in your life, and now you are not able to draw the darn thing without having a second look?
The same goes for other details, and even for the whole scope of things like the human body: you’ve got to memorize the things you have seen and want to reproduce in 2D or 3D.
If you can do this without or with only minimal additional training, consider yourself lucky and gifted.
All others have to work by looking harder, remembering better - going to art classes in the end.
So it all depends, and if I say something like “learn to see” then it is not meant in a harsh way.

Your second question of how to come up with unique ideas is even harder to answer to.

It can be as simple as to marry, raise some kids, put them through school - you’ll have nightmares enough to fill the top row of any forum around :).

Just kidding?
Sure, but: again it is how well you will remember things like the stuff you read, the people you meet, your hopes and fears…
This and how you can reduce (abstract) things in your mind.
So, can you imagine a frog with the hind legs of a rodent, some feathers instead of fur (I know, frogs do not have fur), and tentacles instead of eyes?
You can?
Bingo! Because if you can, you can start reading at the beginning of this here: all that matters now is how well you can remember all these features to let the picture in your mind fill the paper or screen before you.

In the end: if you can remember things clear enough, you might get away with not using any reference. If not take some time into learning how to see and remember - take some classes in drawing or get an anatomy book and use the pictures and forms there as reference for the fruits of your imagination.
Good luck!

#13

The ability to draw is actually 2 very distinct and not related skills.
The first one is to be able to draw what you see,understanding angles relationship,seeing the silouettes in every object you see and being able to find the right colors and nuances.
This ability come from the right part of the brain,which has spatial skills and emotions,it’s the non logical part of th brain.
The second skill is to be able to learn,anatomy,perspective,composition and colors rules,it’s the skill to use logic and theory when you draw and it’s done by the left part of the brain,the logical and rational part,it’s as important as the first one.
To have great skills you should have both of them.

#14

…or those born with a gift

The ability to draw - gifted or skilled by learning

So I think that either learned or natural drawing skills are a must.
I’m quite irritated to see how popular the idea of “gifted” or “natural” drawing skills seems to be among users here. Personally I never encountered anything that would hint on the existence of natural drawing skills. What’s so special about drawing that people are willing to think that it has anything to do with a mystical “gift”? In my opinion, drawing is nothing more (and nothing less) then writing but with much more complicated symbols.

What I believe is, that artistic skill can be devided into the technical aspects (like drawing, sculpting etc.) and the creative aspects (like concept, meaning etc.). The technical aspects have to be trained intensively and drawing surely is one one the most efficient ways to train the eye and the hand tp produce beautiful proportions, lines and shapes. I also experienced that sculpting is very closely connected to drawing and helps to learn the threedimensional correlation of things like anatomy and proportion. However, shape and line are easier to learn by drawing because you achieve a high level of repetition with drawing. Of course that all is independent of the media in which the drawing is produced. I’m drawing in Photoshop most of the time just because it’s more convenient than working on paper.

You might think about drawing skills what you want but there is one thing, that I encounter every single time when I’m tutoring ZBrush to someone who is experienced in drawing: his first model always is miles ahead of anything a total newbie would produce. The drawing skill is easily translated into sculpting and that alone is a good argument to aquire good drawing skills if the goal is to produce good sculptings.

#15

Working in 3D (the digital way) is more easy then working in 2D, because of several things:

there are technical aspects in 2D that you’ll have to take care of while drawing/panting. Just think of shadows and lights and how these vary on the complex form of an organic model. Then there is the perspective: draw Uncle Sam pointing his finger on you - and then model the same thing.

And about being “gifted” - maybe this only describes a person that is more suited for certain things out of the ordinary. Nothing mystical, but somthing like being gifted for running because of the presence of long legs. Nothing but a word that describes some features that would take a long time to explain otherwise.

#16

I think you’re absolutely wrong, and you’ll never know the blessing and curse that is the unexplained “natural ability” to draw.

I was drawing pictures when I was as young as 2, not just scribble but pictures with composition anatomy and form, with no lessons, just encouragement from my parents, I drew my first nude (not a stick figure with boobs) from memory at 5 years old.

Not that my artistic history is important, just trying to point out that there are learned and natural drawing abilities, both of which are essential to any so called “digital” art form.

#17

I agree to both, but more on the digitaldecoy side though.

Whether gifted or not, ones must undergoes some sort of training, in order to refine it.

The rate in which they refine are different in each person,
The fast ones can be call gifted.
But that is true to just about any other field, not just art

Those kind of genius, who can do things on the 1st goes, are extremely rare and is hard to be use for relational comparison.

I don’t think that it’s the ability to [DRAW] that matter, but the ability to perceive and convey forms in itself
A person that can draw well have good understanding of the concept of forms,
And that can be convey to sculpting, because they use the very same basis itself

#18

i know someone who won national awards for his drawings before he turned 11… the guy now paints like you wouldn’t believe but ya, some people just get it without being shown how…

other people reach great heights through intense study, training and practice, everyone has a different route heh

#19

@ jaystein777:

Well, I’m quite happy with my LEARNED drawing skills.

The reason, why I reacted on the whole thing in the first place is the fact, that I believe that drawing (aswell as performing music) would be beneficial for just anyone. Yet, most people when asked to draw something, reply things like “oh, I can’t do that! I’ve got no talent for it”. What if every little toddler would refuse to learn to walk because he things he is not “talented” to do it?

I think that the concept of talent is misunderstood by many people. Of course, not everybody becomes great at drawing but the simple reason for that is that not everybody is interested in it. Becoming a good draftsman means to put a lot of time and effort into the craft. It means to sit at the drawing desk when others go hanging out in the park. You need a very strong interest in the craft in order to power your motivation. And this interest, this energy source that let’s you do the hard work, THAT we might call talent. And it’s not only an internal force. My personal motivation was always fuled by the positive feedback from my environment. Doing art always was rewarded with good feelings. That’s also part of the equation. So talent is not only a factor of your own mind but also of your environment. The encouragement, your parents gave to you might have been more important than your “natural drawing skills”.

But no hard feelings. I don’t mean to force anyone into my believe. But I must say that the concept of talent, if it does more harm (as an easy excuse for so many) than good, it is not really usefull. If society would not asume that any child could learn to read, how many would refuse to learn it? And how many refuse to learn drawing only because so many do asume that not everybody is talented for it? That’s the only thing that bothers me about that matter.

@ broadstroke:

I think that a big part of the believe in “natural skills” is, that many people totally underestimate the abilities of children. We are so used to thinking of children as unexperienced and dependend beings that we totally forget about what amazing learning ablities a young brain has. A child can learn virtually anything. You can train a 3 years old child to solve a rubrick cube in 114 seconds for heavens sake, so why should a young child not be able to handle the concept of light and shadow on paper? Yet, everytime a child does something unexpected or extremely skillfull, so many people believe in a natural talent instead of just realising that children are the most powerful learning machines on the planet.

But it’s ok. There’s no need to argue that matter any further from my side. As I wrote in my very first posting, I PERSONALLY never encountered any evidence that made me believe in natural abilities. Maybe I just lack a discovery in this field.

#20

I don’t doubt anyone’s ability to do something they love.

But, let’s face it, not everyone can be as good as Roger Federer at tennis, for instance.

Here’s another example. Give 30 kids (or adults, doesn’t matter) a pencil and ask them to draw something, and there is without fail one or maybe even a couple of them who will excel at it without any instruction. These are the people who we refer to as having natural skill/ability. The sooner you accept this the better.

Take care