ZBrushCentral

Tired of the "wow" , "amazing" comments on mediocre work...

Community
#21

this

this

and this

I think zbrush central isnt the palace to get good feedback, i have the bigger problem with somthing elese. Wheneevr someone makes a comment he thinks some work isnt good, there is a 50% chance that a flame war will start, with ppl butting in. Ive seen this many times, and it actually happened once to me ;f Its like many ppl dont really want to hear anything besides amazingand wow, great work.
Also the idea with a separate forums for complate and wips will fail, just look at other portals where they have it, the complete section is pretty much always dead. And considering 99% of stuff posted here are doodles, it would just create another subforum where ppl wont come in.

#22

This is why I stopped posting WIP :slight_smile:
Too many newbies crits. I personally find it hard to take crits from inexperienced artists. But I’m not saying all Newbie crits arnt valid.

So I’ll just post final Art, Stop me from constantly replying and justifying why I made something a certain way.
Plus you waste a lot of time replying on WIP forums, when you could be doing work :stuck_out_tongue:

I’ve been member since 04 and only have 137 posts :stuck_out_tongue:

#23

Wow. You sound like a lot of fun.

Did you ever consider that…opinions might vary? If somebody likes something, by all means they should say so.

Hopefully, people that are soliciting crits and feedback should be able to receive some that is useful, but getting worked up because someone else likes something that you consider “mediocre” is fairly petty.

I generally find that the most talented and successful artists are not very concerned in a negative fashion with what other people are doing. They certainly don’t lose any sleep over someone else getting a compliment. Since that seems to work pretty well for them, I’ve always considered it a good philosophy to emulate.

#24

i think most of what would be deemed medicore, is made by people craving attention for their work…really they’re just fishin for free confidence boost.

they don’t want to hear neg crit because their not use to it and don’t know how to handle it.

The people who think they shouldn’t say anything because maybe they couldn’t do better, lack the keen artistic eye for detail which is a skill needed to be an artist.

although i think its a fair arguement that beauty is in the eye of the beholder, realistically it isn’t the case.

personally the most useless comments happen when senior or ‘‘famous’’ artists post their work and you have to wade through noob fan drool to see the image.

don’t get me wrong, its great to see the good and the bad, but 99.9% of the time the brave noobs who post and tag on ‘‘crits welcome’’ are lying.

ok now i need my happy anti-jaded medicine…and to kill a few innocent zombies online

#25

You should critizice…

even if you’re a noob:

“I love this piece, the pose of the character gives him a great sense of strenght and power… the muscles look so freak’n good and the expression gives a final touch”

or a pro

“The artwork is really good, but I think that you should focus a little more on the sense of weight, the muscles of the leg should be under a lot of effort with a character of that weight… the facial expression complements really good the pose”

But not if you’re a “Forum jumper”

“Wooow, thats an amazing work!”

Ctrl+C…

(Forum, jump)

Ctrl+V

“Wooow, thats an amazing work!”

(repeat AdLib)

I think the real trouble lies in the lack of attention or time from the ones who critizice… if the time is taken to give a real crit of an artwork, no matters if a noob or a pro is critizicing a noob or a pro… there will be someone that learns from the critic.

#26

I would be very careful what you wish for.

I would say the character and spirit of this post can easily answer your own question.

First of all, if you think everything that’s art should be technically (in your ideals and archetypes) perfect, maybe you should consider engineering instead.

I think if someone asks for a crit give it to them. If it’s obvious they are trying very hard, but just can’t do the amazing things that some of the group can, well then you have to make a decision between giving them encouragement/criticism that’s relative to their skill level and potential or telling them that maybe they should consider another form of expression. I would say that that’s a hard call to make considering how much is based on personal preference.

Sometimes a piece that isn’t technically great may be truly inspired or capture an overall atmosphere or effect. It may be amazing to some while other find it does nothing for them.

Art is about many things. Whether they overlap or come in groupings isn’t relevant. Any one thing can stand on it’s own if it’s effective in that one thing.

Also what is good for the goose is good for the gander. If you decide to be overly blunt and crude about someone’s attempts be willing to open yourself to that same thing.

Some people react best to gentle motivation while other crave knowing all the gory details and feel that all criticism is good criticism. I find it’s best to deliver everything with a bit of tact.

But now that you have shined such a hard light, I would hope that you are open to that same scrutiny.

If you really want to test your awesomeness with a group of fairly blunt folks, go post your work at conceptart.org. You mind find yourself longing for the slightly more nuanced approach of fellow zBrushers.

Cheers,
holto

#27

For me I can agree that there is a slight problem with the MAIN section of the forum but I feel that it is very difficult to fix.
All these, lets say posts of not yet completed works, are certainly adding to the CLUTTER aspect which for me makes traversing the forum a bit tiring and also less inclined to get involved.
The problem rests in the fact that WHO should decide “what goes where” and on this point we would all have a great difficulty to agree.
Personally I hardly look at the MAIN part of the forum anymore just occasionally at a five star one if the thumbnail grabs me.
I mainly come to the forum for technical info and stuff like that which is covered very well and problems are pretty well answered and mostly very quickly. This is great.

Art is a very varied thing and even in art schools - where I teach - we have always got big discussions about everything. The good thing about art schools is that people are in the flesh when debating and people can respond in a manner that I feel is way better than a chat room environ.
In conclusion I too would like to see a less cluttered MAIN area and maybe a NOOB section is worth considering but it will be difficult to implement.
A solid think tanking without FLAMING would be good.
A few of the posters have been very quick to defend the FREE aspect of art ie anything goes and no one has the right to JUDGE etc.
That is a naive approach and does not really develop people.
Experience from art teaching over many years has definitely shown that setting boundaries with good explanation lead to a better and faster development of the student than a free form education.
I know this sounds very conservative but seriously - most of the great artists are conservatively trained and then break out into ultra modern and adventurous works. This foundation is slowly learnt and requires patience and not WOW statements.

#28

At least people here is better than in Deviantart

People there just post it so that others will see them, and luckily enough click on them, thus raising their page count

Or worse, a site I wont name, criticize others as [I dont know what youre rambling about, dont think you`re so smart, people smarter than you will only look at you in disgust], when someone tried to do a constructive criticism.

Stop posting there since then.
By the way, this is the said person`s work

http://www.itemstudio.org/forum/viewthread.php?tid=1209&page=1#pid17527

#29

Later today BICC39 will explain his comment in the form of an expressionist dance. After that he will answer your personal questions with high pitched screams while knitting the ZBrush logo.

Lemo

#30

hmm now i cant decide what i look forward to more… zb3.5 or bicc´s
performance.

#31

And you would know? Oh the ego :lol:

On to the topic. Yeah I was like that, all reactionary, but it’s a fight you can’t win. Stick to what you do best and don’t bother is what I’m doing.

#32

Later today BICC39 will explain his comment in the form of an expressionist dance. After that he will answer your personal questions with high pitched screams while knitting the ZBrush logo.

Great news Lemo!!

And for those wanting to crit the forth-coming spectacular:

‘Fanboy’ crits: post ONLY on the LEFT-HAND side of the thread
Serious crits: post ONLY on the RIGHT-HAND side side of the thread

#33

Hi Facenna,

I like this your comment.But I am not getting last statement.Please explain me in detail…Do you have any example for this statement???

#34

Come on its obvious and it has nothing to do with my ego, its simply the
ability to seperate a sculptor with understanding of form and volume
from the hobyist that is happy to do what he likes.

#35

Art is very much an personal view and opinion. One persons beautiful piece may be another persons ugly piece. This is true for traditional art and 3D art.

So its hard to set an overall standard which all can be compared equally.

Most of the time I notice the opposite of what you mentioned (where crits are given to pieces that really seem like they dont need it and it is clear that the creator shows/has artistic talent). Now if the crits came from someone who, for example, had been doing this for 10+ years in the industry then the crits are good and constructive and should be noted through their years of experience. But most of the time I notice that novices give the most crits, and their points are medial or are about such small things that it really doesnt matter.

But then again, sometimes someone may see something that someone else missed or didnt notice.

#36
  1. The answer to the personal question is to fake it and move your hips.

2.Does anyone know where I can rent a snake and/or ostrich feathers?

One has to look their best, doesn’t one?

#37

Why stop there when you can go all the way with a Carmen Miranda, banana hat? You have got to get creative to stand out in a crowd.

[carmen_miranda.jpg]

#38

Picasso also had top row realistic art, and medieval drawings were made before art advanced very much as a whole, so I don’t think that’s a fair comparison. imo, this creativity and self expression would only result in good art if the artist has good fundamentals down first.

#39

Flippancy is not a method that leads to development.
It is exactly this that makes the forum questionable as a place for serious art discussion and it is again this “chat room” environ that allows it to flourish.
Flippancy is often regarded as an avoidance technique ie NOT TO DEAL WITH THE REALITY AND FACTS.

PS Flippancy can be enjoyable too but not if it is the norm.

It is a pity because this forum has many good aspects but in the area of the main art subsection it has become ery weak.

All the best and don’t dstart a stupid flame session please.

#40

flip this:D