Architectural Rendering

[michalis]

Unfortunately, you can see it imports with some crazy tri geometry - subdivisions look like death. Any tips you can lend on cleaning things up would be greatly appreciated. I’ve tried retopologizing with zsphere rigging, but I cant seem to get results that look anything like the original mesh… Do any of you use other software programs for managing our geometry? It would be nice to find a program that can easily take care of this, so I can have nice quads to detail on.

Use another program to model these, having in mind a friendly topology for zbrush and subdivisions in general.
Like blender for instance.
You used an app that supports n-gons, sketchup probably. Though you can import, you can’t subdivide these meshes, even in these apps, like blender, modo, etc etc Their job is quite different than zb’s.

The right workflow is to construct the carpet, rag, export it to the other app and render.
So, the right question here is: How to export fibers with UVs?

[voodoodad]

Corey, have you tried Shadowbox to recreate your scene in Zbrush? It’s incredibly easy to do these squared off shapes, even the walls with door and window openings. I made a quick (2 minute) approximation of the back wall in your scene with the shadowbox res set to 560 and the topology is great. Used masking and inflate in the deformation subpallet to do the doorframe viola! you have a wall with a windowed door! After you exit shadowbox you can duplicate the subtool, put the duplicate in shadowbox, clear the mask then turn on transparency and you have a reference on how to size other things in your scene.

Here’s the wall I did. Keep in mind this was quick and dirty, I got a little sloppy with masking the doorframe shapes, but you can see what I mean.

Edit; I forgot to mention, turn polish to 0 in shadowbox, otherwise you won’t get nice square edges.

[voodoodad]

Another 10 minutes of refinement in shadowbox and out. The proportions are a little different than what you have, but I just wanted to demonstrate how easy and versatile shadowbox is while keeping decent topology.

[coreyschroeder]

FatherO - This is something that is happening on import… I used Sketchup to create the mesh, then imported it as an obj into zbrush. There is an option when exporting, to “triangulate faces”… I unchecked this option, thinking it would give me quads and not tris, but it actually ends up not being able to open the file at all…

Gary Komar - I didnt know there was a Tris to Quad setting for imports… Would you be willing to give me some more information on how I could go about using this feature?

Michalis - That is exactly what I’m doing… Exporting from Sketchup to Zbrush… Gonna be bummed if I can figure out how to make this work…

Voodoodad - I would love to be able to do this kind of work in shadowbox, however there are a few issues I have with shadowbox… A) this project is VERY dependent on accurate measurements/scale for each object… I used Sketchup, not only for the quickness factor, but also so I can type in the EXACT dimensions for everything… This is an exact scale replica of an apartment, and we are doing this for interior design ideas, so the wall sizes/entertainment center/couches/etc all need to be actual size… Something you cant do in Shadowbox… I dont want to guess proportions on this one… And, I honestly never have luck with shadowbox, I can never get clean/sharp meshes out of this.

[voodoodad]

Gotcha… Yeah one big drawback of shadowbox is the lack of an exact measurement system.

[coreyschroeder]

michalis, I just read the last part, where you were talking about reversing my workflow, creating things in zbrush and exporting to the other program… The reason I want to use zbrush, is because I want to detail everythin… Add wood grain to the table and doors, texture the walls, texture the couch, etc… I didnt create these assets in zbrush, as everything needs to be exact size and scale… Something ive yet to figure out in zb…

[Gary_Komar]

ya not sure it will work in this case but select the polymesh (star) in tool menu opens the import and export options at the bottom of menu and set to highest - 90 then import your model thats all ! also a method too measure in zb i use is the plane tool - make polymesh apply texture
32 and inverse - then in your case use as floor - append and position tools - same for walls and windows - mask inverse hide and delete points - 1 square = 1 foot or 1 = 2 feet depending on room size ect. then re texture or replace floor - also with plane selected in subtools and poly frame checked gives you 1/2 increments - what your trying can all be done in ZB - hope this helps !

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[Promethias]

This is a sweet idea about the rug and grass.Id love to see it. Also give groboto a shot its 100 dollar program but i have tons of fun with it making objects to import into zbrush and it meshes them real nice. takes a little practice but ive made doors,walls ect,i even did a christmas scene where i made a fireplace and brought it into zbrush for detail.

[Promethias]

this sounded like alot of fun so i tryed a wall with a fur rug just for fun.The shadowbox idea worked well i made this wall with shadowbox.

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[coreyschroeder]

So, I went to the groboto website…
The were running a half off sale that ends today, it was only $50, so I felt like I had to get it.

If you know of any good places to learn how to use it, that would be very helpful.
I’m totally lost at the moment.

[Promethias]

Sweet ,YOu will like it> i got it a month ago half off didnt know the sale was still on.THere are a few tutorials on their webpage some are on there mac version which does have more features then the pc version unfortantly but the pc version is still nice.It makes basic boolean objects into meshs. I will help you where ever you need it. I did the walls and all here in shadowbox in zbrush only but if you look at some of my pictures some of the robots i have done where all in groboto. It does make good meshs ans seams which transfer to zbrush very nicely for basemeshs to start work from. Your model up top looks awesome by the way its to bad its all triangles.

[michalis]

http://forums.sketchucation.com/viewtopic.php?f=323&t=33448&p=372812#p372812

It’s about the obj free exporter.

I’m a little confused about what workflow you have in mind.
Some thoughts:
-To import a archi-vis scene in zbrush for rendering is a terrible idea LOL. BPR is a very useful engine but not for this.
-I need to know what will be your basic app where you’ll set up the scene and render it.
-If it gonna be SU then everything will re-imported as .3ds format / some limitations tough. Texture file names must be less than 8 digits, max tri faces 64k for each single mesh. You can import groups of them.
-The app you gonna use for conversions? Blender is my favorite.

Now, let’s see.
Blender can handle huge poly counting and you don’t have the limits of 3ds files.
It’s more capable for this kind of modeling (furnitures, etc) than zbrush
It has a much better UV editor, a good sculpting room, remeshing/retopology capabilities.
New Cycles render engine is a great GI engine, good for archi vis. There’s a vray support as well.
All these for free.

But you still like SketchUp. Me too. So, start there, create some simple meshes in place of the organic models. Export these in zbrush and reimport them. Learn how to export clean topology from SU! The free ruby “remove inner faces” having normals looking out (no blue faces) and avoiding holes (make it waterproof) are the key. In blender under [W] menu, remove double (vertices). Yes, this is another problem of SU, it exports non welded vertices!

BTW, another reason to learn blender is that you can just UV a mesh, apply the wood texture as you like and finish. If a sculpting and painting method is what you had in mind (zb, subdivisions etc) then importing in SU, better forget it. A very good method for baking on low poly / videogame assets-figures but for achi vis use??? Think practically.

I wrote all these because, like you, I came to zbrush having some experience in Sketchup already. My workflow involves zb, 3dcoat, blender as base app, sculptris sometimes, but not much SU.

[coreyschroeder]

michalis - Let me explain, in further detail, the workflow I am trying to achieve. I’m still new to the 3D world, so bear with me.

I’d like to created things in SketchUp (like the original photo I posted in this thread), and import them into Zbrush for further editing and the final render.

Ideally, I would be able to take these meshes, subdivide them a few times, sculpt as needed, add the textures and polypaint, then pose and do my best preview render… All in Zbrush.

The reasoning behind this workflow - I cannot easily and quickly create these types of things in Zbrush. Maybe I’m just too new still, and haven’t figured the program out completely… I’ve tried, and Zbrush is really more of an organic modeler for me.

So… That is my story. I tried taking something I made in SketchUp, and bring it into Zbrush, and found out that its not as easy as I thought… Being new to the 3D world, I’m kind of stuck at this point… I cant figure out how to export from SketchUp with quads, and I cant figure out how to retopologize this into something useable… So… I’m stuck.

I’ve got Blender and Zbrush at my desposal. Unfortunately, I havent really put any time into learning blender (as I got Zbrush at pretty much the same time). It seems like it would be a great program to use for creating these types of base meshes, and importing into Zbrush… I tried the Lynda.com Blender tutorial, but it was so outdated and of no real help.
If you know of any good resources for learning the program, please pass them on.

I guess I just wish I could integrate SketchUp into my workflow. It is very fast and easy to get amazing results… I just wish I could take it a step further in ZB…

[michalis]

My suggestion for blender newbies:
http://gryllus.net/Blender/3D.html
Register to blenderartists.org forum. Lot of tuts there and great help. Just ask.
In a few weeks a new blender build is coming, it supports better n-gons and plugins so you will probably forget SU. LOL

Blender isn’t just for base mesh creations. It’s probably what you’re asking.
It has a nice sculpting mode, up to 500 K easily, or more (depends on hardware)
Because it can directly paint into UV maps. Not depended on mesh resolution and topology like zb (vertex painting). Just import the SU mesh, remove double vertices, make seams, UV unwrap and paint. Then export to SU as 3ds or simply render in blender/cycles.

You’re a bit confused coreyschroeder. Especially when expecting BPR to render archi vis / interior scenes. It’s simply impossible. You need a global illumination render engine. (Cycles/blender is a good one)

Zbrush is a great tool. Learn blender and you’ll see how to use Z with it. A powerful combination.

I also learned blender and zbrush the same time, some years ago. It was hard, indeed. I was hopping to import some organic modeling to SketchUp and render with an external GI renderer there. I did this. I even wrote a simple tutorial (for bl 2.49 unfortunately now, but same principles. Have a look.
http://www.sketchupartists.org/tutorials/sketchup-and-blender/blender-to-sketchup-a-workaround-for-texturing-organic-shapes/

So, you came here for asking some help on SU exports and here I am telling you to forget SU and learn blender. :lol:
It’s a freeware app. I could suggest modo but costs money.

cheers, take it easy, it’s a little difficult what you’re asking but really creative. Have fun, always

[coreyschroeder]

michalis - Thank you for taking the time to help me out with this idea! You’ve been incredibly helpful!
So, I actually posted a Modo thread, asking essentially the same thing I am here. I got some good feedback about Modo, and equally as much about Blender… I intend on watching a ton of videos about Blender this weekend, but still cant get Modo out of my mind, having seen their architectural image gallery. May I ask you to go into further detail about how you think Modo would benefit this workflow, over Blender? Or do you think I’m better off sticking with blender for the time being?
Like I said, I intend on learning Blender, but I just cant get those Modo renders out of my mind!

[michalis]

Blender time lapse, not archi vis work but it’s interesting as shows how to use Zb with blender, retopology, hard surfacing etc.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1j4iSyMrGE&feature=player_embedded

[RogerAdams]

Hi Corey,

I’ve been trying to figure out the same workflow as yourself. I’m a concept artist in videogames and I use Sketchup almost everyday to design props, environments and even vehicles.

When dynamesh was announced and I wanted to find a way to take my concepts further but I haven’t found a total solution yet. Here is a quick test I did this morning. I modeled a simple room and a small decorative table.

I exported the two objects separately from Sketchup and imported them into Zbrush, then enabled Dynamesh with a resolution around 500. I sculpted the table a little with radial symmetry and I polypainted the room, rather crudely and then did a Best Preview Render.

For me, this is a fun way to concept props like the table but I can’t see it working for an environment when it’s easier to render using RenderIn for Sketchup (A great plugin btw, definitely check it out). With an environment I can’t find a method for the lighting, which would be really important for mood etc.

I think if you ask someone with more experience you could create UVs and paint texture maps in Zbrush, export them to Blender for a render. But again, it’s just too long a process for myself. I can do all that with Sketchup and PhotoShop and the RenderIn plugin I mentioned.

I don’t want to derail your thread into a Sketchup discussion but if you want a technique for texturing in Sketchup, let me know.

Good luck!

Roger

[coreyschroeder]

Roger,

Thank you so much for sharing your workflow.
I would love to get into the game industry, specifically environmental art, and thought sketchup would be perfect…Totally bummed that it didn’t work like I anticipated.

I’ve been thinking, this workflow may actually be possible, with the release of QRemesher.
If Q is a retopology tool, then I would assume it could take the triangulated faces and retopologize it nicely into quads.

I’ve been checking out some other programs, but have decided to not purchase anything, until I give QRemesher a fair chance.
I think Q with Dynamesh, will make the impossible - possible.

There is no way I am giving up with the sketchup idea, that program is just too easy to get great concepts fast.

Thanks again for your post!
Corey

[MetaFirefly]

I’m another Zbrush learner here. I’m attempting to create graphics novel pics with Zbrush, Sketchup and DazStudio. My scenes will have indoor and outdoor scenes which will require lots of hard surface props and a bit of plants. I intend to model hard objects in Sketchup and soft/natural ones in Zbrush, and using Zbrush to improve on my human detailing.

I have tried importing a SKP house model via the free OBJ export and ended up like the first pic posted in this thread. At least now I understand why! Ngons Quads and Triangles, all these format translation issues are so troublesome, wish I could do it all in ONE app! :(

A few questions…

• The successful export of table above is via Sketchup Pro version. Is it via 3DS or OBJ or other format.
• Does Zbrush import FBX or COLLADA from Sketchup properly?
• What is QRemesher? Has it resolved typical Sketchup imports?
• Does Zbrush have more than Lightcap lights which I can position anywhere in a scene?

A non-sketchup question is about my workflow/pipeline. My scenes may have up to a few hi-res human characters. Am I better off

1. Learning to set up scenes inside DazStudio using their 3delight render system (Daz’s import of Sketchup models is wobbly but still possible), use their pose/animation system to pose my characters, and find a way to import Zbrush created furry objects into Daz (daunting process?)

OR should I try

2. using Zbrush as the final render app, for near to medium size stage/scenes?

Thanks for any advanced artist’s input!

[LVXIFER]

very very interesting, i’ll watch this thread for sure…i’ve used zb in the recent past just for texturing some objects and i’ve posted some images of a room , the base was done in 3dsmax for what concern all the right dimensions of objects and the right positioning, maybe you could interested, check post #127
Keep on posting